Devilsnew Please clarify for me. Does everyone who buys a ticket have precognition or does it change?
Precognition exists as a potentiality it is not something one carries. It is seperate from us. Some people seem to exhibit higher frequencies of precognition. I don’t know the underlying cause for that. There is much speculation.
I’m still trying to figure out what devilsknew is trying to say.
If I buy a lottery ticket it is because I know I have a one-in-so-many chance of winning so many million dollars. If I win the jackpot, then how do we know whether I won it through psychic abilities or the laws of chance? Are you saying that they’re one in the same? 
Or is it that precognition = pre cognition = knowing beforehand? Might the word precognition in this case mean simply that a person is aware of the fact that they might win the jackpot?
The potential of precognition exists for everybody. Only the winner or winners had actually entered the state of precognition.
devilsnew
A few years ago I went to the horseraces. First bet I ever placed in my life, well on horses anyway. I didn’t pick the horses, didn’t even look at them first. I picked the numbers by which ones I liked. 9,5 & 1. I won $951, it was a “Trifecta”. I have never bet on another horse since. This way my success rate is 100%.
I do realize the amount won was one of those Cosmic joke things, funny, but meaningless. But, was that precognition. So winning changes the meaning of a bet, because it means the process I went through was correct, successful or validated somehow? Doesn’t that still have kind of the equivilancy of lightening striking next to me and me going “whew, I almost stood there”?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by cityboy916 *
**Cite?
If I were to psychically predict the day of my death, I would not try to prevent it because I am confident enough to accept whatever comes next (and if nothing comes next, then so be it and it won’t matter anyway).
…
…Go on a nature hike, find a three hundred foot high cliff, and look down…you “KNOW” you will die if you step off.
…go…find that cliff and step off.
…huh? what’s that? …you wouldn’t do something so stupid as that?..you won’t continue with an activity that you know will cause you harm.
What? Why do you say that?
…If Psychic ability was truly a real gift, it would be clear and plain to ALL what a psychic is telling us/you …I can say to any human being: “the sky is blue”
…they can see it without turning it over and over in their head for hours trying to decipher it.
…The great expance which is not below is appearing to resemble that which I see when I lay on the grass.
…huh? what did he say?
…if a psychic’s message or advice isn’t crystal clear to a five year old, then it’s only intention//purpose is to muddle and confuse…and keep people’s imagination running.
What in the world is that supposed to mean?
Of course there are charlatans, and of course there are morons who are blind enough to follow them. Og knows I don’t believe everything paranormal I read. But that doesn’t make all of it untrue.
Sorry, I don’t understand. Can you give an example?
Suppose (just to keep it simple) there is one winning number, between 1 and 99, each time in a lottery.
On week 1 a player picks 42. He wins. Does this show precognition?
On week 2 the winning number is 7. This is the ‘future winning number’ with respect to week 1. So what you’re saying above is that 7 is the cause for the week 1 winner’s precognition?
You’re welcome!
I hope I have made it clear that although I think your theory is badly flawed, that you personally are a polite poster who deserves the same respect we all do.
And checking for leaks (nice simile 
) is certainly important for all of us. I have no current reason to believe in astral projection. But when Cityboy916 offers to demonstrate it, I am going to support his experiment all the way. That’s science.
Yes, this is a debate forum. So all ideas are welcome, even if they look unlikely.
But you do need to respond to my questions, because otherwise we are left with a sterile thread where you just propose something and I just say it’s wrong.
No, that’s coincidence.
The chances of you picking the correct 3 numbers are about 1,000 to 1.
The chances of you winning the exact amount of your 3 betting numbers is also about 1,000 to 1.
Total chance is therefore 1,000*1,000 = 1,000,000 to 1.
This looks unlikely at first.
But consider how many bets are placed on similar horseraces. Over time, there are certainly hundreds of millions. And therefore we expect your unusual situation to occur hundreds of times. It just happened to you, that’s all.
To understand coincidence and human interpretation of it, try this. In the UK Lottery, six numbers (between 1 and 49, I think) are drawn each week.
There are about 14,000,000 different combinations.
What do you think the chances of the winning line being:
4, 5, 17, 26, 33, 38?
And what do you think the chances are of the winning line being:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6?
No (sorry!). Suppose that during a storm, lightning strikes nowhere near you. Would you tell us about it?
Of course not - it’s not interesting, and happens a lot.
So when you hear one interesting occurrence, bear in mind that there are huge numbers of boring occurrences that never get mentioned. But they exist! And when you realise that, you start to see where coincidence comes in.
Welcome to the boards!
When, especially in Great Debates, you make a claim, and someone asks for a cite, you are supposed to provide evidence. Giving just your opinion is, unfortunately, insufficient.
Sadly every year many people commit suicide by jumping from cliffs or bridges.
So there goes your statement above.
You’re not psychic, are you?
So how do you know what they see?
How do you know they can turn it over in their mind repeatedly?
Well it so happens that I don’t think there is any evidence of the paranormal. But your argument above fails to convince.
If, decades ago, I psychically foresaw that Microsoft would take off and told a 5 year old to get into the futures market on the stock, I am sure he would be confused.
According to you, that proves I would not be psychic.
Doesn’t make it false either. Your belief, unsupported by facts, is not proof of anything.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. Yes, they are one and the same. Any correct prediction that appears to be the result of psychic ability is, in fact, just a lucky guess. The laws of chance don’t just allow for the occurrence of lucky guesses, they virtually guarantee that people will sometimes make lucky guesses.
Glad to see you’re finally coming around.
The horses had to come in, in order, 9,5,1. So that obviously increases the odds. I was just using this example to try and make sense of the devilsnew’s puzzle. I was not trying to make any point.
Okay Glee, I’m good at randomly picking numbers, but math? Just a minute…uh 14,000,000:1?
I start back to college in January(after a loooong time away). I was hoping to avoid math as long as I could.
The same, although it looks more fun.
I’ve never had lighting strike right next to me, but haven’t you heard people say “somethin’ jes tol Maggie an’ me not to stan ther”(did you catch my accent there). We seem to get a lot of that where I live. And the people on TV telling about their events don’t usually have half of their teeth. What are the odds. Not enough crime yet , I guess. You don’t have to sell me on coincidence. It is my constant humorous companion.
,win via :
iPsycho-kinesis: (they influence the order that those ping pong balls getpicked in)?
(2)precognition (they know the order in advance)
(3) telepathy (they read the minds of the people picking the balls)
So, which is it?
Seems to me that psychi powers ought to lead to lots of lottery winners…the fact that wins are rare, leads me to suspect that people do not have these powers.
It would appear that yawnyyawnson was not careful in distinguishing his/her reply from my post, and glee mmisunderstood. The sentences that do not begin with an ellipsis are mine. Please, try to be more careful in the future.
:rolleyes: gee thanks!
So has it been shown that there are no more winners than the laws of chance would guarantee?
What if you had one of those clear plastic containers that they sometimes use for lottery drawings, the kind with the crank on one side, and you repeatedly arranged the same balls in the same sequence in the same places, then turned the crank at exactly the same rate of speed for exactly the same duration each time. Would you get the same lottery numbers each time? I think this would be a valuable experiment, if it can be done.
The point of that is, how much randomness is there in the universe? Is it reasonable to assume that if this week’s drawing was played over and over again under the same conditions, that the outcome would always be the same? Because if not, then the outcome of each game is simply not decided until it has already been drawn and there is no future to predict in the case of the lottery.
On the other hand, if the drawing is predetermined by all the conditions that exist at the time that device is spun or the computer chooses them (think seeding random numbers), then what determines the behavior of a quantum particle or an experiment such as Schrodinger’s cat?
One evening our psychic study group was attended by a couple of young men. One was carrying a brown-paper wrapped box, with small pencil lettering saying: “this is not a ouija board.”
Seems the two had discovered the board really worked. They had been communicating with a philosopher of some kind, and over the past few months they had tried to win the lottery, pick horses, and anything else they could think of to “get rich quick.”
However, all that happened was they lost their money and a lot of it. They wanted to know why. They were given numbers to play and horses to bet on, but lost every time.
After the laughter subsided the group point out that because someone was dead, did not mean they were smart. The same rules of discretion apply in the spiritual and do in the physical.
Love
None of the above.
There is no need for a supernatural hypothesis, as the laws of chance work very well, thank you. Do you really think that lotteries could stay in business if there was any other force at work?
Casinos know that given X dollars spent at a gaming table will result in Y dollars earned over time. It’s a sure thing, money in the bank, more reliable than a moon shot, year in and year out. How would that be possible if someone could tell the outcome of a dice roll in advance? Influence the roulette wheel even by 10%?
My contention is that chance is component to precognition. However, our perception of chance is the projected “mirror image” of precognition. Much as script in a mirror, we can read it and it will make sense, but it is insubstantial and reversed. Precognition is the parent substance or condition.
I’m sure most of you think just the opposite, that precognition is the mirror image of chance. I simply say, look a little more closely at the actual mirror that you are looking into- The mirror of time.
Alice, Come Back!
If we were to shine a mirror into the future what would we see?
Mirror, mirror, by the flue,
Wish I knew what Devilsknew.
Mirror, mirror on the wall,
What’s he saying, if at all?
Mirror, mirror by the bed,
Is this all in his head?
Mirror, mirror, stuff of rhyme,
Metaphysical in time.
devilsknew, can you spell out for me exactly what your contention is?
He has, but it’s really hard to “read”.