# Can you legally stop a cop who has his knee on someone's neck, suffocating? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 30, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742 "2020-05-30T17:36:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/21 "2020-05-30T21:43:32Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > That’s why you should livestream the police or any other misconduct you see going on in public. Learn to use one of those services that uploads your video into the cloud while you are shooting before you need to use it. Any recommendations? (newbie to streaming here) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/22 "2020-05-30T21:44:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In many cases, they wouldn’t be making up that law. There are places were they really have enacted laws against recording the police. Only [Massachusetts and Illinois](https://reason.com/2012/04/05/7-rules-for-recording-police/), but those laws are (probably) unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/23 "2020-05-30T21:47:59Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > That’s why you should livestream the police or any other misconduct you see going on in public. Learn to use one of those services that uploads your video into the cloud while you are shooting before you need to use it. Until cops start carrying cellphone jamming equipment. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/24 "2020-05-30T23:04:57Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Only [Massachusetts and Illinois](https://reason.com/2012/04/05/7-rules-for-recording-police/), but those laws are (probably) unconstitutional. As I understand it, the Illinois law was ruled unconstitutional (or something similar) in 2012 (ACLU v. Alvarez), and was fully struck down in 2014. > **[ACLU v. Alvarez](https://www.aclu-il.org/en/cases/aclu-v-alvarez)** > > In August 2010, we sued the Cook County State’s Attorney, Anita Alvarez, seeking to enjoin prosecution of the ACLU under the Illinois Eavesdropping Act for expanding our police monitoring program to I think the Massachusetts law has also been overturned. [https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-law-about-recording-police](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-law-about-recording-police) According to [Nolo](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/recording-the-police-legal.html), “Almost every court to consider the issue has determined that the First Amendment gives you the right to record (pictures, video, and audio) police officers in public while they are performing their duties.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/25 "2020-05-30T23:32:39Z")
**[Moderating]** This is General Questions. “Is this moral?” is not a factual question. “Is this a good idea?” is not a factual question. “Are the police corrupt?” is not a factual question. “Is this legal?”, however, is. If we can’t keep within the bounds of this forum, Warnings will be issued. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/26 "2020-05-31T00:07:02Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Any recommendations? (newbie to streaming here) Facebook live is probably the easiest way. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/27 "2020-05-31T03:58:49Z")
The short answer is “yes” you are legally within your rights to do it. But as a practical matter you will have to be very correct in your actions and as you saved the guy’s life and he didn’t die, be prepared for police experts to testify that what you did was wholly unnecessary, the police were following proper procedure, that the thing you stopped was wholly unlike the George Floyd situation, and that you interfered with a lawful arrest. Also be prepared for an ass kicking once you do it. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/28 "2020-05-31T04:06:13Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Until cops start carrying cellphone jamming equipment. Satellite phone? I would go to jail, it is the morally correct thing to do. Sorry, I haven’t watched the footage, but was he not actually handcuffed as the cop was on his neck? If he is already handcuffed. there is _no_ reason to be kneeling on his neck. Anything other than exactly as long as it takes to cuff him/her, it is too much force. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/29 "2020-05-31T12:00:34Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Any recommendations? (newbie to streaming here) [The ACLU has an app for that.](https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct) Footage is uploaded directly to the ACLU. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/30 "2020-05-31T13:10:43Z")
**[Moderating]** > [@aruvqan](#): > > Satellite phone? > > I would go to jail, it is the morally correct thing to do. Sorry, I haven’t watched the footage, but was he not actually handcuffed as the cop was on his neck? If he is already handcuffed. there is _no_ reason to be kneeling on his neck. Anything other than exactly as long as it takes to cuff him/her, it is too much force. And this just three posts after my reminder that this is not a thread about what is moral. That’ll be a Warning for failure to follow directions. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/31 "2020-06-08T04:21:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Until cops start carrying cellphone jamming equipment. Which is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/32 "2020-06-08T06:27:45Z")
OK! I am going to buck the tide and answer the question posed in the OP. (Not wanting any warnings was a consideration, I’ll admit.) Isn’t there some legal requirement to render aid to those in physical jeopardy? (depends state by state?) From [here](https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2015/05/in-which-states-do-i-have-a-duty-to-help.html). > [@](#): > > Does your state have a duty to report or help law? > > On your walk to Starbucks, you hear a scream! Around the corner you find a lady knocked out, bleeding from a cut wound to her arm, and a guy is running away with her purse. Do you help her? Do you run after the guy? Do you call the police? Can you just continue on your way and ignore the lady? > > No Duty to Rescue > > At common law and in most states, people, generally, have no duty to help or rescue another person. You would only have a duty to help if you created the peril, you started trying to rescue or help, or you have a special relationship, such as parent-child, with the person in need. It does go on the list the exceptions > [@](#): > > Wisconsin – In Wisconsin, if you know that a crime is being committed, and that a victim has suffered or may suffer bodily harm, you have a duty to call police or provide assistance > Minnesota – If you are at the scene of an emergency and you know that someone has suffered grave physical harm, or could be hurt, you have a duty to give “reasonable assistance.” Reasonable assistance can mean calling or attempting to call police or medical personnel. > Rhode Island – If you know that person is a victim of sexual assault, murder, manslaughter, or armed robbery and you were at the scene of the crime, then you need to report the crime to law enforcement. Failure to do so is punishable by up to six months in jail or a fine of $500 to $1,000. > California – When you reasonably know or believe that a child under 14 years of age has been a victim of murder, rape, or lewd and lascivious acts, you must notify law enforcement. Failure to do so is excused if you feared for your own safety, or you are related to either the victim or the offender. > Florida – In Florida, if you witness a sexual battery, you need to immediately report the offense to law enforcement. Violation of this law is a first degree misdemeanor. > Other states that have similar statutes include Ohio, Massachusetts, Vermont, Hawaii, and Washington. As this wouldn’t be a sexual crime, the requirements for California and Florida are not relevant. For Rhode Island, there isn’t a duty to intervene. For Minnesota and Wisconsin, you have to call the police or provide other reasonable assistance, and I seriously doubt that it could be construed to mean you had to actively interfere with the police action. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/33 "2020-06-08T14:14:18Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The short answer is “yes” you are legally within your rights to do it. But \*\*as a practical matter you will have to be very correct in your actions \*\*and as you saved the guy’s life and he didn’t die, **be prepared for police experts to testify that what you did was wholly unnecessary** , the police were following proper procedure, that the thing you stopped was wholly unlike the George Floyd situation, **and that you interfered with a lawful arrest**. Also be prepared for an ass kicking once you do it. (emphasis added) That does seem to be the long ( **Little Nemo** ) and the short ( **UltraVires** ) of it with these kinds of situations. Legally you may assist someone being abused and assaulted, \*\*\*but \*\*\*out in Reality Street the presumption is against any form of interference with the actions of police. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/34 "2020-06-08T14:37:30Z")
No, but this is actually better! [**Dallas Police Adopts ‘Duty To Intervene’ Policy To Prevent Abuse**](https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/05/870414038/dallas-police-adopts-duty-to-intervene-policy-to-prevent-abuse) > [@](#): > > Dallas police must intervene whenever a fellow officer is using excessive force, according to a new order from the city’s police chief. > > Chief Reneé Hall is implementing the “duty to intervene” policy for all of the city’s sworn and non-sworn police officers, according to a statement released overnight Thursday. > > The new general order, the department said, is meant to create a culture to prevent another death like George Floyd’s, who was killed in Minneapolis police custody a week and a half ago. A video of the scene shows Derek Chauvin planting his knee on Floyd’s neck while fellow officers stood nearby or helped restrain Floyd, who pleaded and said he couldn’t breathe. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/35 "2020-06-08T15:24:10Z")
Although, that still only applies to other police officers intervening, not bystanders. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/36 "2020-06-09T14:14:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Although, that still only applies to other police officers intervening, not bystanders. [Not according](https://www.newsweek.com/attorney-officer-charged-george-floyd-death-questions-why-public-didnt-intercede-prevent-1509533) to Lane’s attorney. > [@](#): > > The lawyer for one of the former police officers charged in the death of George Floyd **questioned why the public “didn’t intercede” to stop Floyd’s death** on May 25. > > “All these people say why didn’t my client intercede… well, if the public is there and they’re so in an uproar about this, they didn’t intercede either,” Gray said. “And my client’s down where he can’t really see.” > > Host Chris Cuomo countered that Lane had a “fine view” of Chauvin pressing against Floyd’s neck and pushed back against **Gray’s suggestion that members of the public should have rushed in to save Floyd by physically confronting the four armed police officers.** Fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/37 "2020-06-09T15:12:48Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Not according](https://www.newsweek.com/attorney-officer-charged-george-floyd-death-questions-why-public-didnt-intercede-prevent-1509533) to Lane’s attorney. Chronos’s response is regarding a new policy of the Dallas Police. It has nothing to do with anything Earl Gray said. > [@](#): > > Fucking idiot. Maybe, but it seems to me that his comment is being taken out of context. _“All these people say why didn’t my client intercede… well, if the public is there and they’re so in an uproar about this, they didn’t intercede either.”_ That’s being spun and CNN, Newsweek, etc. are claiming that Gray said that members of the public should have rushed in to save Floyd. I don’t see it that way at all and that suggestion would really screw his client. If he claimed the public should have stepped in, it would be obvious to a jury that the other police officers should have stepped in first. A more likely interpretation is that Gray is suggesting that just as it’s okay and/or reasonable that the public didn’t intervene, it’s okay that his client didn’t also. That falls more in line with other comments by Gray, such as this one: _“If three cops are trying to restrain somebody and one doesn’t agree, well that one cop should go beat up the other two cops and let the guy go? That’s absurd,” Gray said.”_ > **[Attorney Representing Thomas Lane, Ex-Cop Involved In George Floyd's Death,...](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/attorney-representing-thomas-lane-ex-cop-involved-in-george-floyds-death-argues-case-against-his-client-is-weak/)** > > The initial court appearance for three of the four ex-Minneapolis police officers involved with George Floyd's appeared to be a standard hearing - until Thomas Lane's attorney gave an impassioned argument defending his client. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/38 "2020-06-09T16:03:05Z")
Removed post because it’s not part of a GQ answer. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/39 "2020-06-09T20:59:38Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Maybe, but it seems to me that his comment is being taken out of context. > > _“All these people say why didn’t my client intercede… well, if the public is there and they’re so in an uproar about this, they didn’t intercede either.”_ > > That’s being spun and CNN, Newsweek, etc. are claiming that Gray said that members of the public should have rushed in to save Floyd. I don’t see it that way at all and that suggestion would really screw his client. If he claimed the public should have stepped in, it would be obvious to a jury that the other police officers should have stepped in first. > > A more likely interpretation is that Gray is suggesting that just as it’s okay and/or reasonable that the public didn’t intervene, it’s okay that his client didn’t also. That falls more in line with other comments by Gray, such as this one: > > _“If three cops are trying to restrain somebody and one doesn’t agree, well that one cop should go beat up the other two cops and let the guy go? That’s absurd,” Gray said.”_ > [Attorney Representing Thomas Lane, Ex-Cop Involved In George Floyd's Death, Argues Case Against His Client Is 'Weak' - CBS Minnesota](https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/06/06/attorney-representing-thomas-lane-ex-cop-involved-in-george-floyds-death-argues-case-against-his-client-is-weak/) Agreed. And this is why defense attorneys should not talk to the press. Just a plain, “The evidence that will be shown at a fair trial will require a jury to conclude my client is not guilty of the offense charged. I do not want to make any further statements that might harm the prospect of a fair trial as the State is recklessly doing” and then shut the fuck up. What he is clumsily trying to say is that as my client was facing the crowd, he did not see the distress that George Floyd was under. If the bystanders saw a man choking to death, they would have rushed to intervene. As they did not, how can my client with a much poorer view of the situation, be expected to intervene when the bystanders did not? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742/40 "2020-06-09T22:43:59Z")
The YouTuber LegalEagle has posted [his analysis of this question.](https://youtu.be/jpshmYWTQDo?t=1175) His opinion is no, a person can not interfere with the police even if the police are doing something wrong (well, you could but you would get in trouble for it). Just a data point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-legally-stop-a-cop-who-has-his-knee-on-someones-neck-suffocating/854742.md?page=1)