# Can you offer any tips or suggestions to lower car insurance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 27, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082 "2020-01-27T23:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/21 "2020-01-29T07:10:44Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > It makes sense to me that if you enable people to drive without ins, they will have a natural tendency to not be as cautious as other people who have to pay extra for liability ins. I know that if I cause an accident, my rates will skyrocket and I understand why. People drive without insurance. That’s a fact. I don’t know how many times I’ve been in the courtroom (I’m a lawyer, by the way) when somebody charged with “driving without insurance” comes before the judge. There are all kind of scenarios that can give rise to such occurrences and in many cases, the subsequent accident is covered by insurance somehow, though the charge and the consequences still stand. Remember that it’s not you, it’s the coverage you have on the car. If you have a car you drive daily, with full coverage (Car A); and a car in your driveway that you are trying to sell (Car B), and you have only covered with comprehensive coverage (i.e. covered by “fire and theft”), then as long as you only drive Car A, you’re fine. But no matter how much coverage you have on Car A, the minute you drive Car B on public roads, no matter how carefully, and without the mandatory liability coverage, you are an “uninsured motorist.” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/22 "2020-01-29T07:47:46Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I understand (at least I think I do) but the areas - as I understand it - are as small as a city block. So, if that is correct, does it seem reasonable that someone living in one city block pays perhaps $1,000 but their neighbor in the adjacent city block pays perhaps as much as $1,600? > > I apologize because I have no solid numbers to present to you and I’m just trying to determine if this can be fair or if there may be something nefarious going on where the ins company has found a way to artificially increase their profits just by running some statistical analysis routines? > > In other words, suppose they try every which way they can imagine to cut up the city into these areas and compute how much revenue they get using each config. Then they just accept the config that gives them the maximum revenu. > > Am I presenting this in a way that is understandable such that my point is evident? This is really no different from the way anything works in a free market economy. Competition among insurance providers is what gets you a good price, not reliance on what you might consider fair or non-nefarious behavior. Absent competition, an insurer doesn’t need the excuse of some rigged statistical model to jack up their prices, they can charge what they want anyway. A better statistical model for risk allows one company to take business and profits away from another company _in a competitive market_ by offering lower prices to lower risk consumers. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/23 "2020-01-29T07:50:22Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Uninsured motorist coverage certainly is legal in Canada, and is often one of the optional coverages typically sold with a policy. Here in Alberta, it’s called the “SEF 44 Family Protection Endorsement.” [The name belies its purpose](https://www.lesaonline.org/samples/45_09_04_p1.pdf): > > Emphasis added. The SEF 44 protects you against damage caused by uninsured motorists. I’ll add that it’s dirt-cheap. My SEF 44 coverage cost me all of $25 last year. In other words, it’s not something you want to drop in order to save money. Is it legal to drive without ins in Alberta? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/24 "2020-01-29T07:54:07Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Is it legal to drive without ins in Alberta? I don’t think there’s _anywhere_ in the civilized world that it’s legal to drive without liability insurance, except where liability is covered in some other way (e.g. South Africa). _Un_insured drivers aren’t driving legally; and a large number of drivers will only carry the absolute minimum insurance, which may be legal but inadequate, i.e. they are legal but _under_insured. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/25 "2020-01-29T09:17:28Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Is it legal to drive without ins in Alberta? No, of course not. You must carry the minimum of $200,000 in liability. Most drivers carry $1M, though. I certainly do. You can choose such things as comprehensive, and collision, and glass; but to operate a vehicle on Alberta roads, you absolutely must have a minimum of $200,000 in liability coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/26 "2020-01-29T11:37:12Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > No, of course not. You must carry the minimum of $200,000 in liability. Most drivers carry $1M, though. I certainly do. > > You can choose such things as comprehensive, and collision, and glass; but to operate a vehicle on Alberta roads, you absolutely must have a minimum of $200,000 in liability coverage. Hmmm … when I renewed they just gave me $ one million liability and never told me there was any choice about it. Judging from the costs of different deductibles however, I’m pretty certain that if they do allow lower comprehensive amounts, the change in the price would be miniscule and it certainly would not be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/27 "2020-01-29T13:04:27Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > move to a state with lower costs, here in NC they are much lower than many states Yeah, really. I just moved to NC from NY. My auto insurance, same coverage, same insurer, newer and nicer car - is about 20% of what I paid in NY. Not 20% LESS, 20%. They required LOTS of proof of residency though. As the woman at my insurer said “Sometimes people living in NY lie to try and get an NC policy”. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/28 "2020-01-29T13:50:05Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Yeah, really. I just moved to NC from NY. My auto insurance, same coverage, same insurer, newer and nicer car - is about 20% of what I paid in NY. Not 20% LESS, 20%. > > They required LOTS of proof of residency though. As the woman at my insurer said > “Sometimes people living in NY lie to try and get an NC policy”. That certainly is amazing! But it makes me think there must be something strange going on with the way they ins cos. charge for diff residential areas. How can it possibly makes sense for car insurance to only cost 20% of the NY rate in NC? If everything is on the up and up, it would have to mean that either NY drivers have 5 times as many accidents as NC drivers or accidents cost the company 5 times as much to repair in NC or maybe cars are worth 5 times more in NY or some kind of combination of related factors. I just cannot understand this. It seems so bizarre. I base these figures on the following calculation: If ins that costs me $1,000 in NY only costs me $200 in NC, then NY’ers pay 5 times as much for their ins. I do realize ins companies can charge whatever they like and that is reasonable because we depend on the free market system to keep prices in line. Every company has the incentive to charge fairly or else some other company will charge less and the excessively-greedy companies will lose business or go out of business. But how can the rate of occurrence of accidents or the cost of accidents really be 5 times different in NY than in NC? How can that be explained? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/29 "2020-01-29T14:05:20Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > But how can the rate of occurrence of accidents or the cost of accidents really be 5 times different in NY than in NC? How can that be explained? It cannot be explained because it’s not true, on average. Ann’s case is not typical. According to this source, average rates among U.S. states vary by a factor of about 3, from Maine (cheapest) to Michigan (most expensive). NY is 63% more expensive than NC. > **[Car Insurance Rates by State in 2024 | Ranking Most and Least Expensive States](https://www.insure.com/car-insurance/car-insurance-rates.html)** > > Car insurance rates by state: See where your state falls on Insure’s list of the cheapest and most expensive states for car insurance in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/30 "2020-01-29T14:41:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > It cannot be explained because it’s not true, on average. Ann’s case is not typical. > > According to this source, average rates among U.S. states vary by a factor of about 3, from Maine (cheapest) to Michigan (most expensive). NY is 63% more expensive than NC. > > [Car Insurance Rates by State in 2024 | Ranking Most and Least Expensive States](https://www.insure.com/car-insurance/car-insurance-rates.html) Ahh … thank you. Good explanation! There could be other factors that would make her rate lower than the average. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/31 "2020-01-29T15:46:14Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Am I missing the reason you seem to favor UIM? Is it just so that people who need to drive but cannot afford ins will be able to drive? I’m sure that many of those people are reasonable folks who would not want to injure others and then leave them to pay the costs themselves. But it just seems so incredibly unreasonable to me. > > I must be misunderstanding something? Yes, I guess I wasn’t clear. First, I don’t know much about how this is handled in Canada, (although I know you can get UIM insurance in B.C.) Second, UIM (sometimes called UM, underinsured insurance coverage) is to protect you if you are hurt by someone else who has insufficient insurance. They may have the legal minimum (only $25,000 in Washington, and lower elsewhere), or even more than that. That person caused your damage and is legally responsible to compensate you. But, the harm they caused far exceeds the insurance coverage they have and they have insignificant other assets you can go after. I have to explain this to hurt people all the time. Imagine this conversation at the hospital bedside: “I’m sorry, I can get you the $25,000 with a phone call, they will offer it right away. I won’t even take a fee on that. The hospital will write off part of your $325,000 bill. However, I can’t help you with the fact you’re out of work for at least 6 months, maybe forever. You’ll have to apply for Social Security after a year of disability. I can’t get you compensation for your constant pain, or for the fact you your wife died int he same accident. (I _can_ get you another $25,000 for her death, it that helps).” Obviously, when tragedy strikes, “it’s not about the money,” but people actually do need money in times like this. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/32 "2020-01-29T16:11:11Z")
Here’s an interesting map that shows you average private passenger rates based on location: [Find auto insurance rates by postal code | RATESDOTCA](https://www.kanetix.ca/insuramap) It doesn’t included every province, so I’m not sure if this is valuable to you. I live in the Greater Toronto Area, and there are some big differences depending on where you live. Insurance company pricing will also vary depending on each company’s business plan. If Insurance Company A wants a bigger slice of business in a certain area or demographic, they will price that more aggressively. Insurance Company B may not want that business, and will price it to be more expensive. Source: I am be a insurance broker for 20+ years.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/33 "2020-01-29T16:31:25Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yes, I guess I wasn’t clear. First, I don’t know much about how this is handled in Canada, (although I know you can get UIM insurance in B.C.) > > Second, UIM (sometimes called UM, underinsured insurance coverage) is to protect you if you are hurt by someone else who has insufficient insurance. They may have the legal minimum (only $25,000 in Washington, and lower elsewhere), or even more than that. That person caused your damage and is legally responsible to compensate you. But, the harm they caused far exceeds the insurance coverage they have and they have insignificant other assets you can go after. I have to explain this to hurt people all the time. Imagine this conversation at the hospital bedside: > > “I’m sorry, I can get you the $25,000 with a phone call, they will offer it right away. I won’t even take a fee on that. The hospital will write off part of your $325,000 bill. However, I can’t help you with the fact you’re out of work for at least 6 months, maybe forever. You’ll have to apply for Social Security after a year of disability. I can’t get you compensation for your constant pain, or for the fact you your wife died int he same accident. (I _can_ get you another $25,000 for her death, it that helps).” > > Obviously, when tragedy strikes, “it’s not about the money,” but people actually do need money in times like this. Thank you for that explanation. But I am shocked BC allows UIM for two reasons: 1. I thought UIM was not permitted anywhere in Canada 2. B.C. has the most unusual system of car insurance I have ever experienced and if you don’t know about it, I’m guessing you won’t believe this. The B.C. govt started a corporation called ICBC (Insurance Corporation of British Columbia). The best thing about this corporation is that it provides B.C. residents with something good to laugh about when they are stuck indoors in the rain. (Note: my attempt at humor because it rains so often in B.C.'s largest cities). No insurance company is permitted to sell car insurance in B.C. Can you believe that? I have some very funny stories to tell you about some of my experiences with ICBC but I fear this is not the time or place for them. If you ever have some spare time and you are looking for a laugh, do try to search for “I.C.B.C.” and see what you think. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/34 "2020-01-29T17:37:29Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Wow! $60 per month? That is incredible! Here in Ohio I pay $45 a month for each car and that is for full coverage with $250 deductibles. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/35 "2020-01-29T17:38:13Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > Here’s an interesting map that shows you average private passenger rates based on location: [About Us - Kanetix Ltd](https://www.kanetix.ca/insuramap) Thank you ever so much Dante. I have never seen that site before and I was pleasantly surprised when I examined my area and saw that my current rate is 10 percent lower than expected. Of course, my rate last year was before I got the so-called “loyalty discount” and at that time it was 10 percent higher than expected. By “expected” I mean the price the map said is the expected rate. But I’m a little surprised they can quote a rate without knowing several important factors like: . My age . My criminal history (if any) . The kind of car I drive (surely there is a huge difference between a new car and one that is 10 years old. Also a car that costs $10K new vs a car that costs $50K new. BTW, there are plenty of cars that sell new for $40K or $50K. . My driving history (number and type of accidents I’ve had) . My infractions (number and type of moving violations I’ve had) How can that site quote a price without knowing any of these factors as well as several others that I thought were important to know before a price could be determined? ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/36 "2020-01-29T17:54:53Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Thank you ever so much Dante. I have never seen that site before and I was pleasantly surprised when I examined my area and saw that my current rate is 10 percent lower than expected. > > Of course, my rate last year was before I got the so-called “loyalty discount” and at that time it was 10 percent higher than expected. > > By “expected” I mean the price the map said is the expected rate. But I’m a little surprised they can quote a rate without knowing several important factors like: > > . My age > . My criminal history (if any) > . The kind of car I drive (surely there is a huge difference between a new car and one that is 10 years old. Also a car that costs $10K new vs a car that costs $50K new. BTW, there are plenty of cars that sell new for $40K or $50K. > . My driving history (number and type of accidents I’ve had) > . My infractions (number and type of moving violations I’ve had) > > How can that site quote a price without knowing any of these factors as well as several others that I thought were important to know before a price could be determined? The site is likely quoting an average cost, and not specific to any one person. All of the things you mention do go into the mix for your personal insurance cost. You’d be surprised at the insurance cost for new vs. used vehicles. My wife’s insurance went down after trading in her four year lease for a new vehicle. The reason being is that her new vehicle was safer, and so her Accident Benefits coverage went down, as she’s less likely to be injured. If you look at your policy breakdown, you’ll see there’s a lot of money in the sections where you have to repair people. Reason being is because repairing people is expensive, and there is a ton of fraud in that area too. Auto insurance fraud is about $1 billion per year in Canada. [Cite](https://www.insuranceinstitute.ca/en/cipsociety/information-services/advantage-monthly/0718-insurance-fraud) ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/37 "2020-01-29T17:57:47Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > Here in Ohio I pay $45 a month for each car and that is for full coverage with $250 deductibles. > > Dennis Aye CARUMBA!!! (spoken with a Spanish accent) I pay almost $1600 annually for full coverage i.e. ($800K Liability and $250 deductibles. Adjusted from CDN to US dollars) Grumble. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/38 "2020-01-29T19:28:53Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/39 "2020-01-29T19:57:22Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > It cannot be explained because it’s not true, on average. Ann’s case is not typical. > > According to this source, average rates among U.S. states vary by a factor of about 3, from Maine (cheapest) to Michigan (most expensive). NY is 63% more expensive than NC. > > [Car Insurance Rates by State in 2024 | Ranking Most and Least Expensive States](https://www.insure.com/car-insurance/car-insurance-rates.html) I suspect the New York CITY rate is considerably higher than the average rate for New York State. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082/40 "2020-01-29T20:49:28Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > After all, who forgoes theft ins or collision ins if the car is worth more than $1000? _raises hand_ I drop comprehensive and collision when the blue book value of the vehicle is around $7,500 or so. By this time the car loan is paid off and I can self-insure the difference between the blue book and the deductible ($1000 in my case). After 35 years of driving I have yet to suffer a loss that comprehensive and collision would have paid for if I had carried it. Maybe the exception would be glass replacement, but glass is relatively cheap anyway, and something that I consider almost as a preventative maintenance cost in that I can just expect the cost and budget for it. As for UIM coverage, that protects you, so going cheap on it doesn’t make sense. I have high liability limits (as a condition of having an umbrella policy) so I pay money to protect somebody else\* so why would I cheap out on UIM coverage that covers me? I have four cars insured and not only do I have $100k/$300k UIM coverage, it’s stacked so I actually have 4 times that amount. Anyway, four vehicles, high liability limits, high UIM coverage, $1k deductible on all, except the newest car (2017 Subaru) which has collision and comprehensive and $250 deductible as a condition of the loan. $250 per month. \*Ok, it ultimately protects me, but I expect anyone I might hit would be happy with me having much more than the legal minimum coverage. Well, maybe not happy but you get my drift. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-offer-any-tips-or-suggestions-to-lower-car-insurance/847082.md?page=3)