# Can you punt a field goal? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 21, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480 "2010-11-21T22:27:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/1 "2010-11-21T22:27:10Z")
My stupid football question of the week. The Bills had the lead late in the game and they were punting the ball. They wanted to make sure the Bengals couldn’t return the kick so they were punting it into the endzone. The punter got it easily into the endzone. But suppose he had really gotten his foot under it and kicked the ball through the uprights. Would that have counted as a field goal? Or is a punt inherently different that a field goal attempt and something you can’t score off of? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/2 "2010-11-21T22:29:12Z")
As soon as the ball crosses the plane at the front of the endzone, it’s a dead ball and a touchback. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/3 "2010-11-21T22:42:33Z")
there is the [drop kick](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_kick) (from wiki) > [@](#): > > American football > The only successful drop kick in the last sixty-plus years in the NFL was by Doug Flutie, the backup quarterback of the New England Patriots, against the Miami Dolphins on January 1, 2006, for an extra point after a touchdown. > Flutie had estimated “an 80 percent chance” of making the drop kick,[5] which was called to give Flutie, 43 at the time, the opportunity to make a historic kick in his final NFL game. (In fact, the drop kick was his last play in the NFL.) After the game, New England coach Bill Belichick said, “I think Doug deserves it,”[6] and Flutie said “I just thanked him for the opportunity.”[5] > The last successful drop kick in the NFL before that was executed by Ray “Scooter” McLean of the Chicago Bears in their 37-9 victory over the New York Giants on December 21, 1941 in the NFL championship game at Chicago’s Wrigley Field. Though it was not part of the NFL at the time, the All-America Football Conference saw its last drop kick November 28, 1948 when Joe Vetrano of the San Francisco 49ers drop kicked an extra point after a muffed snap against the Cleveland Browns.[7] > Another recent vocal proponent of the drop kick in the NFL had been Jim McMahon, quarterback for several NFL teams. During the 1980s, while playing in Chicago, McMahon regularly practiced the drop kick, and was known to frequently petition Bears head coach Mike Ditka for an opportunity to use the maneuver. Ditka, who regarded the play as an anachronism, never allowed it.[citation needed] > > The last successful drop kick extra point in the NCAA was by Aaron Fitzgerald of the University of LaVerne on November 10, 1990 against Claremont-Mudd-Scripps.[8] [Flutie’s Drop kick on youtube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0Jsz-fSNd4) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/4 "2010-11-21T22:43:58Z")
You can’t punt the ball for a field goal or point after touchdown. But you can drop kick it…the kicker drops the ball and kicks it when it bounces up. It has been used in the NFL once in the last 60plus years. Doug Flutie did so for a PAT playing for New England against Miami on January 1, 2006. The advantage of doing a drop kick is you have one more man (the holder) available for blocking. The disadvantage is the shape of the ball…very easy to get a bad bounce. Since special teams are far better at blocking then kickers are getting true bounce, it is seldom used. > **[Drop kick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_kick#American_football)** > > A drop kick is a type of kick in various codes of football. It involves a player dropping the ball and then kicking it as it touches the ground. > Drop kicks are used as a method of restarting play and scoring points in rugby union and rugby league. Also, association football goalkeepers often return the ball to play with drop kicks. The kick was once in wide use in both Australian rules football and gridiron football, but is rarely used anymore by either sport. > The drop kick technique in rugby c... ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/5 "2010-11-21T22:50:27Z")
Jinx, I usually get the worse of the simul-posts. Consider this my touchdown dance. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/6 "2010-11-21T23:04:04Z")
Similarly in both codes of rugby a drop-kick at goal may be made from open play or any time a place-kick is allowed. It is the usual mode of kicking a conversion (cf. extra point after touchdown) in the seven-a-side game as it takes less time to execute than a place kick, but in yesterday’s match against Samoa the England fly-half Toby Flood drop-kicked a conversion, which is very unusual in 15-a-side. A punt at goal is right out, though - it would be far too easy. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/7 "2010-11-21T23:44:13Z")
Dropkicks are alive and well in both forms of rugby (although only worth 1 point in rugby league). Here’s [Francois Steyn](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DkPOO2tF0o&feature=related) taking a 55 metre drop-goal in the French rugby competition. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/8 "2010-11-22T02:03:19Z")
Dropkicking is not that hard to do. I used to screw around with it and could get pretty good distance. Probably in the 20 yard range. That is trying to kick with some degree of accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/9 "2010-11-22T02:12:20Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > You can’t punt the ball for a field goal or point after touchdown. But you can drop kick it..the kicker drops the ball and kicks it when it bounces up. Right. In order to be a legal kick for a field goal (or extra point), the ball has to be kicked from the ground, either from a placement on the ground (i.e., a standard placekick) or from a bounce off of the ground (i.e., a dropkick). Since a punt never hits the ground before the punter punts it, even if it goes through the uprights, it’s still just a touchback. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/10 "2010-11-22T03:06:13Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > The disadvantage is the shape of the ball..very easy to get a bad bounce. I suspect that the demise of the drop-kick were the very changes to the ball shape that made forward passes more possible- from more of a rugby-ball shape to something more pointy. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/11 "2010-11-22T03:30:53Z")
Yep. [Modern rugby ball](http://www.shopadidas.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4001141&mr:trackingCode=E2E39752-EB87-DF11-BC8B-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA&CMP=CAC-GOOGCSE&cm_mmc=Adidas_USeCom-_-Feeds-_-GoogleProductSearch-_-Range&sv=E42036) versus [modern NFL football](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Wilson-Official-NFL-Game-Ball-Football-The-Duke-F1100/5192758). ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/12 "2010-11-22T14:00:43Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > As soon as the ball crosses the plane at the front of the endzone, it’s a dead ball and a touchback. Do you mean the back of the endzone? In practice, nobody returns punts from the endzone, because they’re really unlikely to get better yardage than a touchback, but don’t they have the option in theory? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/13 "2010-11-22T15:59:19Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Dropkicks are alive and well in both forms of rugby (although only worth 1 point in rugby league). > > Here’s [Francois Steyn](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DkPOO2tF0o&feature=related) taking a 55 metre drop-goal in the French rugby competition. At first I thought that was amazing, but now I’m wondering if the ball ever hit the ground. Can’t tell from the video. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/14 "2010-11-22T16:06:06Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Do you mean the back of the endzone? > In practice, nobody returns punts from the endzone, because they’re really unlikely to get better yardage than a touchback, but don’t they have the option in theory? No, that’s kickoffs. Punts that cross the line are automatic touchbacks. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/15 "2010-11-22T16:06:35Z")
If you attempt to drop kick a field goal, and it fails, does the ball go back to the placement of the drop kick, the line of scrimmage, or is it considered a punt? Corollary: If a punter misses the ball as he drops it to his foot, and then it bounces up and then he kicks it, is it considered a punt or a drop kick, and where is the ball placed? And is the punt returner allowed to attempt a return in such a scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/16 "2010-11-22T16:41:06Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > As soon as the ball crosses the plane at the front of the endzone, it’s a dead ball and a touchback. > [@USCDiver](#): > > No, that’s kickoffs. Punts that cross the line are automatic touchbacks. Nope. It has to touch the ground in the endzone. If it’s in the air, a player can leap across the goalline, and bat it back into play before it hits the ground. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/17 "2010-11-22T16:44:01Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > As soon as the ball crosses the plane at the front of the endzone, it’s a dead ball and a touchback. What am I missing here? Frequently on a punt the kicking team will try and pin the ball as close to the endzone as they can and sometimes that involves jumping from the playing field across the endzone plane to swat back a ball before it lands in the endzone. As long as the player’s last step was on the field side of the line and the ball hasn’t hit the ground yet, it is legal to deflect it back into play. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/18 "2010-11-22T17:13:20Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > If you attempt to drop kick a field goal, and it fails, does the ball go back to the placement of the drop kick, the line of scrimmage, or is it considered a punt? The ball would return to the spot of the drop-kick, unless (as with all missed field goals) the defense attempts to return it. > [@Jackknifed Juggernaut](#): > > Corollary: If a punter misses the ball as he drops it to his foot, and then it bounces up and then he kicks it, is it considered a punt or a drop kick, and where is the ball placed? And is the punt returner allowed to attempt a return in such a scenario? Bit of a judgment call there, but if a player intends to punt, and fumbles the snap or whiffs on the drop, he has lost control of the ball, and from that point he would be kicking a loose ball, which is a penalty. The ball is still live, and the defense can return the kick, but afterward they have the option of accepting a 10-yard penalty which would force a re-kick. I’ve seen a punter fumble the snap and kick the ball off of the ground, resulting in a penalty as per above. I’ve seen a near-whiff on the drop by Sean Landeta in the 1985 playoffs. (But the ball did graze off the side of his foot.) I’ve never seen a pure whiff followed by a kick on the bounce. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/19 "2010-11-22T17:13:44Z")
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**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480/20 "2010-11-22T17:17:07Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Bit of a judgment call there, but if a player intends to punt, and fumbles the snap or whiffs on the drop, he has lost control of the ball, and from that point he would be kicking a loose ball, which is a penalty. The ball is still live, and the defense can return the kick, but afterward they have the option of accepting a 10-yard penalty which would force a re-kick. > > I’ve seen a punter fumble the snap and kick the ball off of the ground, resulting in a penalty as per above. I’ve seen a near-whiff on the drop by Sean Landeta in the 1985 playoffs. (But the ball did graze off the side of his foot.) I’ve never seen a pure whiff followed by a kick on the bounce. I’ve never seen a penalty on plays like that. If it hasn’t crossed the line of scrimmage, it’s still eligible to kick. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-punt-a-field-goal/561480.md?page=2)