# Can you really hear the "time" of a song? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243 "2010-05-13T00:44:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/1 "2010-05-13T00:44:09Z")
For my own curiosity, can you really hear a difference between 4/4 time, 3/4 time, etc? Is there really a difference, or is it academic…simply dividing the correct quantities of notes into measures on the written page. As a listener, it all sounds like a string of notes, regardless. Maybe someone can give me some examples in pop or classical music to hear the differences. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/2 "2010-05-13T00:54:28Z")
The different notes in a measure will have different emphasis. In 4/4, the strongest emphasis is on the first beat of a measure, with a secondary emphasis on the third beat, so if you hear something going DUM dum Dum dum DUM dum Dum dum, then it’s probably in 4/4. In 3/4, the strongest emphasis is on the first beat without a secondary emphasis, so if you hear something going DUM dum dum DUM dum dum, then it’s probably in 3/4. In addition, there’s often a repeating motif of some sort with a period of one measure (even if not in the melody, then usually in the bass line), which can be a clue as to the time signature. Now, it’s not always possible to distinguish between pairs of 2/4 measure and 4/4, or between pairs of 3/4 and 6/8, but the difference between 4/4 and 3/4 is pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/3 "2010-05-13T01:09:17Z")
I can definitely hear it. Watch [this scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZPIU0wGVkQ) from _Stripes_, where they’re marching and John and Russell start singing “Doo Wah Diddy”. The melody is anchored by the first beat in each measure. THERE she was, just-a WALKin’ down the street, singin’ DOO wah diddy diddy DUM diddy doo The footsteps are the beat (or should be, it’s a little ragged). The melody doesn’t sound like a pattern, except that it always hits that first beat. If you count along with it, it’s ONE-two-three-four. I guess I’ve been doing it so long, I can’t imagine how anyone _doesn’t_ hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/4 "2010-05-13T01:21:41Z")
Exactly what **Chronos** said. (Edited to add, also what **Robot Arm** said too) Waltzes are a good example of 3/4 and 6/8 music. The beat has an obvious **one** two three - **one** two three - like a pulse. Some groups have made a signature of odd times, _October Project_ is one of those. I couldn’t find the song I wanted by them, (Deep as it Goes) but here’s one of theirs with an odd time. See if you can count it out, try tapping your foot and figure out the meter they are using. [October Project _Always_](http://popup.lala.com/popup/504684676369521200) Here’s one of theirs in 4/4, you can count out the beats and it has a 4 time pulse and repeat. [October Project _Return to Me_](http://popup.lala.com/popup/504684659189652016) [Dave Brubeck](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Brubeck) is a famous pianist that did several songs in odd time frames. His most famous classic performed is [Take Five!](http://popup.lala.com/popup/504684646362433558) which is in 5/4 time. Try a quick listen to this one, clap or tap along and you can see and feel the 5/4 meter. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/5 "2010-05-13T01:28:00Z")
[Here’s Oom Pah Pah!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPRmaYDDk6s#t=26) from Oliver cued up to the chorus, where the 3/4 is stressed probably as much as it’s possible to stress 3/4. Count it in your head: it’s “1-2-3,1-2-3,1-2-3,1-2-3.” You can’t really count “1-2-3-4,1-2-3-4,1-2-3-4” (as 4/4) without ending up in really awkward beats on the one. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/6 "2010-05-13T01:55:16Z")
To really mess you up, try to find the beat in the first part of “Money” by Pink Floyd. It’s written in 7/4 :eek: And there’s a Rush song (forgot which) is either in 5/4 or 2/4 and 3/4 alternating. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/7 "2010-05-13T02:13:21Z")
To really mess you up, try to find the beat in the first part of “Money” by Pink Floyd. It’s written in 7/4 :eek: And there’s a Rush songs in 7/4: The Spirit of Radio and 7/8: Tom Sawyer (instrumental part) La Villa Strangiato ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/8 "2010-05-13T02:26:50Z")
I thought Spirit of the Radio was in 4/4, same thing with La Villa, and Sawyer, I used to drum those. Are you certain of the meters for those songs? I think though the other song you’re thinking of by Rush is Natural Science from the album Permanent Waves. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/9 "2010-05-13T03:27:35Z")
Shouldn’t we make sure the OP has got the basics before we start listing all the esoteric time signatures we can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_Full\_of\_Neutrality](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ab992/32.png) [@Heart\_Full\_of\_Neutrality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_Full_of_Neutrality)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/10 "2010-05-13T03:29:37Z")
Here’s a web page with a sortable list of songs in time signatures other than 4/4: [http://aufrecht.org/songs/](http://aufrecht.org/songs/) ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/11 "2010-05-13T03:43:25Z")
“America” from “West Side Story” famously switches between 6/8 and 3/4. “I like to be in A-” is in 6/8, “-mer-i-ca” is in 3/4. And just before that you can hear the same switches in the music and the clapping. This exact pattern persists throughout the song except for a few spots, the discovery of which is left as an exercise to the listener. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/12 "2010-05-13T03:47:53Z")
4/4 time (four four time) = boom chick boom chick 3/4 time = boom chick chick 6/9 time = boom chicka bow wow ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/13 "2010-05-13T04:10:46Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Shouldn’t we make sure the OP has got the basics before we start listing all the esoteric time signatures we can think of. I know! Slow down guys! Let’s start with 3/4 and 4/4 and go from there. If **Jinx** is having trouble hearing 3/4 and 4/4, 7/4 and the alternating 3/4-6/8 in America is definitely not going to clarify matters. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/14 "2010-05-13T04:23:49Z")
I love it when I encounter a song in 5/4, like [Take 5](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwNrmYRiX_o) or [Mission Impossible](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55NuWQCh78). I heard another recently, but can’t recall what it was. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/15 "2010-05-13T04:37:09Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I love it when I encounter a song in 5/4, like [Take 5](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwNrmYRiX_o) or [Mission Impossible](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55NuWQCh78). I heard another recently, but can’t recall what it was. I’ve brought it up before, but the minor pop hit by the [Juliana Hatflied Three](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUAVbGoR81I) is in 5/4. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/16 "2010-05-13T04:44:22Z")
Or [WTF?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxANVR07GVI) by OK Go, if you mean the song was recent, too. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/17 "2010-05-13T05:20:05Z")
No, not _OK Go_. Cool video, by the way. As usual, from those guys. I think it was an instrumental on a movie soundtrack. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/18 "2010-05-13T05:20:35Z")
Here’s an example of the same song arranged with different time signatures. [“Big C”, as played by the Cal Band (UC Berkeley)](http://fightmusic.com/mp3/pac10/California__Big_C.mp3) It’s in 4. But there’s also a stronger accent on alternate beats, so that it almost feels like a slow 2. [“Big C”, as played by the Cal Aggie Marching Band (UC Davis)](http://ia311510.us.archive.org/0/items/1983_California_Aggie_Marching_Band/09_Big_C.mp3) This arrangement is 6/8 (probably most noticeable in the flute/clarinet parts). You can still detect a broader 2-feel, but now there are 6 smaller beats in the same amount of time that took 2 in the first arrangement. For further comparison, there’s the UCLA fight song based on Big C : [“Sons of Westwood” played by the UCLA Bruin Marching Band.](http://fightmusic.com/mp3/pac10/UCLA__Sons_Of_Westwood.mp3) It’s the same melody, played in 4 as the Cal version, but with each beat emphasized more evenly. You don’t get the “slow 2” feel as much in this one. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/19 "2010-05-13T05:24:49Z")
Oh, boy. I didn’t want to bring this up in this thread quite yet, (as I was afraid of confusing the OP) but here’s some more examples from a recent Straight Dope thread I put up: > [@Blues in waltz time?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blues-in-waltz-time/536951/16): > > OK, this isn’t going to win any Grammies anytime soon, but I whipped up some examples quickly in Garage Band. Forgive the cheesy quality of the sounds and the recording, but it should help illustrate what I’m talking about. > > I’ve used “Can’t Help Falling in Love” as my example. > > Here it is in [12/8](http://www.peterpawinski.com/timesigs/fallinginlove128.mp3) time. (How Elvis recorded it.) > > Here it is with a [3/4](http://www.peterpawinski.com/timesigs/fallinginlove34.mp3) feel. (Sorry, there’s a little bit of silence I forgot to delete from the beginning here.) > > The 12/8 and 3/4 example have _exactly_ the same organ melody line. I literally cut and pasted the 12/8 example into the 3/4 example. I just played drums and piano with a different feel under the melody line so you can hear the difference. > > Here it is with a true [4/4](http://www.peterpawinski.com/timesigs/fallinginlove44.mp3). > > And, just for fun, here’s what it might sound like in [5/8.](http://www.peterpawinski.com/timesigs/fallinginlove58.mp3) The 3/4 and 4/4 examples should be most useful for the OP at the moment. Disregard the 12/8 and the 5/8 unless you’re curious. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243/20 "2010-05-13T05:25:55Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > To really mess you up, try to find the beat in the first part of “Money” by Pink Floyd. I’m sure it’s hard to figure out the time signature of Money if you’ve never done it before, but I think it’s pretty easy for someone with an untrained ear to feel where the one is. To the OP I’d say it’s something you feel more than you hear. If you find your foot tapping along with a piece of music, or for that matter if you’ve ever clapped along, then you’re able to find a down beat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-hear-the-time-of-a-song/539243.md?page=2)