# Can you really kill a guy by driving his nose up into his brain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401 "2005-08-17T06:48:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/21 "2005-08-17T16:20:36Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So I guess that thing about ripping a guy’s heart out and showing it o him before he dies is impossible as well. Oh, that’s possible, it just what be considered rude to interupt an open heart surgery in that manner, and would require the anethstesiologist to be in on it with you if you wanted it to register in the eyes of the intended. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/22 "2005-08-17T16:20:50Z")
Not possible. No bone, just cartilage. I’d be willing to bet that deaths reported following a blow to the nose came about because the individual was knocked unconscious, bled profusely from the nose shot, aspirated the blood and choked to death. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/23 "2005-08-17T16:21:19Z")
My Kempo Jitsu Sensei said it was bunk. Even if it were true it would be a pretty hard technique to bring off…the face is one of the zones people reflexively protect, especially the nose. Oh, you can (and should) hit it…but to hit it at a certain specific angle with a specific and measure blow? By the time you have someone at that kind of disadvantage the fight is over anyway. > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Isn’t one hard blow to the temple the best bet for quickly killing a guy with one punch? With internal bleeding from a hard body blow (Houdini’s demise) being a slower way for someone to die from a punch? I’d say if you wanted to kill someone with one blow the throat would be your target. Its (relatively) easy to crush the windpipe with a blow from a fist (its also not one of the reflexive protection zones according to my teacher anyway)…and I believe the force necessary to, er, tear out someone’s throat isn’t all that great either. The gripping strength of the average male is probably sufficient if one has the right technique. It would be much easier than, say: > [@DTC](#): > > So I guess that thing about ripping a guy’s heart out and showing it o him before he dies is impossible as well. No messy ribs to get in the way and all. -XT ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/24 "2005-08-17T16:32:46Z")
When I was taking human osteology, I admit that this was one of the things I was curious about. From looking at an actual skull, I just don’t see how killing someone by punching them in the nose, from any angle, could kill them (short of one of those one-in-a-million shots) by ramming the nasal bones intor their brain. First, the nasal bones themselves are small and pretty fragile. If you do manage to drive one of those up toward the brain, you still have the frontal sinuses and endocranium to go through. I mean, if someone manages to drive a one inch long bone through your endocranium, I figured it was because they rammed their fist into your brain. The nasal bone or lacrimal bone would be the least of your worries. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/25 "2005-08-17T17:25:01Z")
No actual cites here, but I’m suspicious of this claim, given it isn’t something one can practice systematically, as one can with many other martial arts moves and principles. It obviously can’t be performed slowly, or with less power, or step-by-step, and get the same results; sparring with this technique isn’t possible. Even if one used this in battle against a thousand enemies, one might get reverse confirmation bias: darn, he didn’t drop, _I must have got the technique wrong that time._ And the one time you get lucky, it confirms that it obviously works. Given how little was known about vital signs and death in centuries past, I wonder if this tale has been carried down through many years from a time when “killed instantly” was just exaggeration or euphemism for “dropped him to the ground.” Anybody have any idea how long this tale has been around? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/26 "2005-08-17T17:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Apparently one of the guys got punched so hard he had a heart attack and died. I believe it is possible to cause heart failure by hitting someone in the chest hard at just the right location at just the right point in the heartbeat. Not that it’s something you can aim for, but people do occasionally die from an otherwise non-damaging blow to the chest. So if someone got punched so hard he had a heart attack, my money is on him being punched in the chest. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/27 "2005-08-17T18:09:33Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I would think that if it was true professional boxers would be running a close risk of death every time they got in the ring. > One miss-placed rabbit punch to the nose and your dead? > I doubt it. Nitpick: a rabbit punch is an illegal punch to the back of the head or neck. Hard enough, now _that_ can kill ya. ---
**Author:** ![netter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea666f/32.png) [@netter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netter)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/28 "2005-08-17T18:27:00Z")
I haven’t played with a real (or model) skull like some here have, but looking at [these](http://www.bartleby.com/107/Images/small/image193.jpg) [three](http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/anatomy/atlasofanatomy/plate02/images/2-1_static.jpg) [pictures](http://courses.washington.edu/vertebra/453/photos/skull_photos/human_skull_interior_02.jpg) leads one to believe that there’s really only a few tiny holes open between what thin nose bone does exist and the brain cavity for some nerves and maybe blood vessels. The little bits of nose bone would just splinter or bend under the skin long before they’d drive through much thicker skull bone. Whenever you see someone with a broken nose, even from a knee coming straight up from a muay thai clinch, the bridge is usually just got a big sideways V bend to it meaning it “crumpled” on impact. For such a technique to work at all (let alone consistently) you’d likely need a baseball bat and an imobile head. But with that, well, you could probably kill the person hitting any number of spots on the head - which isn’t very sporting! ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/29 "2005-08-17T18:58:11Z")
> [@netter](#): > > I haven’t played with a real (or model) skull like some here have, but looking at > [these](http://www.bartleby.com/107/Images/small/image193.jpg) > [three](http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/anatomy/atlasofanatomy/plate02/images/2-1_static.jpg) > [pictures](http://courses.washington.edu/vertebra/453/photos/skull_photos/human_skull_interior_02.jpg) > leads one to believe that there’s really only a few tiny holes open between what thin nose bone does exist and the brain cavity for some nerves and maybe blood vessels. Right, those are pictures of the endocranium. Assuming the bones didn’t just crumple as you pointed out, it seems like an upward blow to the nose would tend to try to drive the bones toward the pituitary gland, one of the most well-protected parts of the body. (Geeky medical trivia: The pituitary sits on the _sella turcica_ (I think I have the spelling right), which means “turkish saddle”). ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/30 "2005-08-17T19:09:17Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Is it really possible or is that just a load? So I guess the consensus so far is “just a load”? ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/31 "2005-08-18T16:17:31Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > So I guess the consensus so far is “just a load”? Just a load of statistical anomalies, would be my guess. There are plenty of recorded incidents where someone has been smacked in the head and just flat-out died as a result due to various obscure things happening inside their bodies. One of the more common ways of smacking someone in the head is to punch them in the snoot. Hence, I can foresee rare but well-discussed incidents of someone getting smacked in the nose, falling over and dying, either on the spot or within a short while. These would end up being conflated into 'killed im wi a single blow :eek: ’ ‘nose into brain! Ninja!’ type scenarios, while in fact the victim could just as likely have been killed by a maternal clip round the ear, or banging their noggin on a branch. However those probably would not get the same gossip mileage. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/32 "2005-08-18T16:48:06Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > I’m not sure which I find more threatening. The nose up the brain bit or the fact that I’m rooming with a complete nut job. I wonder how he came up with the 47th, why not 46 or 48? :dubious: Um… because those spots were already taken by the 46th and 48th Universally ranked psychics. Duh. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/33 "2005-08-18T17:50:35Z")
I could see smacking someone so that the cartiledge seperates from the bridge and slides off to the side under the skin and over the facial bones and exits through the lower eyelid. No instant death but my bet is that this would be a fight stopper. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/34 "2005-08-18T18:46:38Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > [New](http://www.startribune.com/stories/467/5541361.html) fell to the ground, and died of internal head injuries several hours later. > > Kinda vague. It seems like most cases involving a single blow to the head, a fall, and then death, the fatal injury is inflicted by the floor-body/head contact and not the punch. [anecdote]When I was practicing law in Hawaii, my law firm had a case that involved a similar death. As part of his probation, our client was required to take anger management classes from an approved provider. The only approved course was offered at a church. The leader of the course was an ex-convict who had graduated from a similar program. Our client showed up to class drunk. The teacher lost his temper :eek: and puched our client in the face. Our client hit the floor and died of head injuries. The irony of it all.[/anecdote] ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/35 "2005-08-18T19:03:59Z")
> [@](#): > > A BOXING fan was killed by a single punch in a late night incident outside a takeway, Manchester Crown Court was told. > > John Jobson, 49, fell backwards and his head hit the pavement, fracturing his skull. [http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/35/35424\_boxing\_fan\_killed\_by\_single\_punch.html](http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/35/35424_boxing_fan_killed_by_single_punch.html) > [@](#): > > The punch was of sufficient force to fracture the jaw and it must have rendered Mr Trimmer unconscious as he went to the ground in a way that quite obviously meant he was unable to break his fall. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west\_midlands/4139666.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4139666.stm) > [@](#): > > The court was told he had acted out of misplaced chivalry, defending a group of girls, when he punched the 17-year-old, knocking him to ground and causing a fatal blow to his head. [http://archive.thisisbradford.co.uk/2005/2/3/93308.html](http://archive.thisisbradford.co.uk/2005/2/3/93308.html) [Story about deaths in boxing in the causal mechanisms](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8804892/) [Story about a beating death and its causal mechanism](http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/10.23.97/pink-murder-9743.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/36 "2005-08-18T20:15:58Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > I could see smacking someone so that the cartiledge seperates from the bridge and slides off to the side under the skin and over the facial bones and exits through the lower eyelid. No instant death but my bet is that this would be a fight stopper. I doubt even a [RapidRhino](http://www.rapidrhino.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=products.epistaxis) would solve that problem. Have you ever considered piracy? You’d make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/37 "2005-08-18T20:28:36Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I believe it is possible to cause heart failure by hitting someone in the chest hard at just the right location at just the right point in the heartbeat. Not that it’s something you can aim for, but people do occasionally die from an otherwise non-damaging blow to the chest. > > So if someone got punched so hard he had a heart attack, my money is on him being punched in the chest. That is rare, but not completely uncommon. Every so often you hear a story in the news about some kid who died from getting hit in the chest by a baseball. I’d be more concerned about getting punched by those guys I saw on Extreme Marshal Arts on the Discovery Channel who can crush coconuts with their bare hands (coconuts supposedly being stronger than a human skull) ---
**Author:** ![netter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea666f/32.png) [@netter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netter)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/38 "2005-08-19T02:19:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’d be more concerned about getting punched by those guys I saw on Extreme Marshal Arts on the Discovery Channel who can crush coconuts with their bare hands (coconuts supposedly being stronger than a human skull) Well, there are tricks to that and it’s not nearly as impressive as it seems; sometimes the shells are even “prepared” beforehand. Most of the time if you hit a skull (not the face) really hard with a fist, bones in that fist will break first - hence the reason for hand-wrapping and gloves. I’ve seen numerous fighters break their hands accidentally smacking the top of someone’s head, but never seen a cracked skull from a standing hand strike. Remember Mike Tyson busting his hand on Mitch Green’s face in their little shopping confrontation? He was also quoted saying he tried to do what the OP is asking in several of his fights… fortunately it never worked. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/39 "2005-08-19T03:17:10Z")
If I were driven by extremity I think that I could kill a man by driving his **car** up into his brain, but his nose? I don’t think so. It’s just not hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401/40 "2005-08-19T06:35:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Unregistered Bull > Isn’t one hard blow to the temple the best bet for quickly killing a guy with one punch? With internal bleeding from a hard body blow (Houdini’s demise) being a slower way for someone to die from a punch? Actually Houdini’s death was not caused by the blow. Houdini died of peritonitis from a ruptured appendix on Halloween, October 31, 1926, at the age of 52. Houdini had sustained a blow to his abdomen from McGill University boxing student J. Gordon Whitehead in Montreal two weeks earlier. A long-standing part of Houdini’s act was to ask a member of the audience to punch him in the abdomen, but Houdini was reclining on his couch after his performance, in this instance, and was struck several times, without the opportunity to prepare himself for the blows. [2] Despite popular belief, the appendicitis and not the blow was the cause of his death – the pain inflicted by the blows probably ‘masked’ the pain of the appendicitis, preventing the performer from seeking treatment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-really-kill-a-guy-by-driving-his-nose-up-into-his-brain/317401.md?page=3)