# Can you redeem the word "manifesto"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266 "2014-05-26T04:17:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/1 "2014-05-26T04:17:26Z")
Recent [events](http://gma.yahoo.com/inside-santa-barbara-killers-manifesto-141852298--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1) have given the word “manifesto” a bad name. You are being given the opportunity to bring this term back into favorable standing. In 500 words or less, thoughtfully promote a new idea with prescriptive notions for carrying out change. Bonus points if you don’t make it a rant. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/2 "2014-05-26T04:47:55Z")
I discard your premise. Some recent homicidal asshole using the word doesn’t give it a bad name. Manifestos are useful and necessary expositions on what one views as being in need of changing in society. They basically ARE rants, although at best they are well-measured thoughtful carefully worded rants. There’s nothing wrong with a rant, per se. Heck, we have a BBQ Pit! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/3 "2014-05-26T05:19:00Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I discard your premise. > > Some recent homicidal asshole using the word doesn’t give it a bad name. Manifestos are useful and necessary expositions on what one views as being in need of changing in society. > > They basically ARE rants, although at best they are well-measured thoughtful carefully worded rants. > > There’s nothing wrong with a rant, per se. Heck, we have a BBQ Pit! Agreed AHunter3, but where in the local/national media have you heard the term used (as of late, or even not as of late) in a way that is non-derogatory? Its filled with evil connotations. :eek: C’mon, you know what I’m referring to, which is the reason for this thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/4 "2014-05-26T06:12:41Z")
I haven’t read the most recent opus that’s being described as a “manifesto” (actually, I’ve never read any manifesto at all). As to the one in question, did the writer make arguments that actually apply to society at large, or do they mostly pertain to conditions that made his personal experience unsatisfactory (perhaps with some veneer of categorical imperative to give a fig leaf of universal applicability to it)? If the latter, that strikes me as being more of a “whinge.” Encouraging the adoption of “whinge” into the American idiom would be a step in the right direction. A necessary follow-up, of course, would be to insist upon the distinction being drawn (and noted) by our media outlets. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/5 "2014-05-26T06:55:56Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I haven’t read the most recent opus that’s being described as a “manifesto” (actually, I’ve never read any manifesto at all). As to the one in question, did the writer make arguments that actually apply to society at large, or do they mostly pertain to conditions that made his personal experience unsatisfactory (perhaps with some veneer of categorical imperative to give a fig leaf of universal applicability to it)? > > If the latter, that strikes me as being more of a “whinge.” Encouraging the adoption of “whinge” into the American idiom would be a step in the right direction. A necessary follow-up, of course, would be to insist upon the distinction being drawn (and noted) by our media outlets. Its the media that is referring to it as a “manifesto”. Why this term? Why not say, proclamation? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/6 "2014-05-26T07:12:09Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Its the media that is referring to it as a “manifesto”. Why this term? Why not say, proclamation? [This](http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/emancipation_proclamation/) is a proclamation. On the other hand, [this](http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/) is a manifesto. Therefore, I believe the media’s current definition is apt – no change is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/7 "2014-05-26T08:10:04Z")
Well, that just validates the OP’s point, doesnt it? Shouldn’t there be a word for a sober, analytical, persuasion-oriented treatise that can responsibly be used as the intellectual foundation of a movement for social change, _without_ being tainted by nomenclatural association to crazy-pants crap like _Mein Kampf_? Or was the word coined deliberately to describe crazy-pants crap? If it originally applied primarily to sane and respectable writings, the class of sane and respectable writings should be allowed to keep it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/8 "2014-05-26T08:51:09Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, that just validates the OP’s point, doesnt it? Shouldn’t there be a word for a sober, analytical, persuasion-oriented treatise that can responsibly be used as the intellectual foundation of a movement for social change, _without_ being tainted by nomenclatural association to crazy-pants crap like _Mein Kampf_? > > Or was the word coined deliberately to describe crazy-pants crap? If it originally applied primarily to sane and respectable writings, the class of sane and respectable writings should be allowed to keep it. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/9 "2014-05-26T09:09:06Z")
If the word manifesto is ruined, it was already ruined by politicians. For me, I have to consciously try _not_ interpret ‘manifesto’ to mean ‘a collection of statememts comprising vague, insincere or hopelessly optimistic promises, and/or outright lies, made by a political party in the period immediately preceding election’ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/10 "2014-05-26T09:12:40Z")
I think for me the link between the word “manifesto” and the visual image of a hipster/crust punk/crazy man in a cabin scribbling away is too solidly forged to ever be undone. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/11 "2014-05-26T09:12:55Z")
A few years back, the screed by Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was widely described in the media as a “manifesto”. ETA: Ninjaed, more-or-less, by **Mr. Nylock** , I see. GMTA. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/12 "2014-05-26T09:42:08Z")
A manifesto here is usually a political party’s policy plan. The word holds no negative connotations at all. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/13 "2014-05-26T13:47:55Z")
Old man Marx ruined it for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/14 "2014-05-26T17:41:57Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Agreed AHunter3, but where in the local/national media have you heard the term used (as of late, or even not as of late) in a way that is non-derogatory? Its filled with evil connotations. :eek: C’mon, you know what I’m referring to, which is the reason for this thread. 🙂 As anyone who was here for the 1960s can attest, if the local/national media does _not_ go all derogatory on your ass, your manifesto must be failing the acid test of manifestohood: it isn’t identifying something in society that is in need of changing. Demanding change tends to upset forces that are aligned with predictability and order and which are wary of change. Being depicted by the mainstream media as a fount of dangerously twisted and evil and violently disruptive ideas is a recognition that you may actually have a manifesto 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/15 "2014-05-26T19:04:30Z")
I spent weeks looking for a suitable alternative, and found none. If the piece is a manifesto, you have to call it that, regardless of Marx and way too many campus revolutionaries. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/16 "2014-05-26T19:30:27Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Recent [events](http://gma.yahoo.com/inside-santa-barbara-killers-manifesto-141852298--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1) have given the word “manifesto” a bad name. I wouldn’t call Karl Marx “recent.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/17 "2014-05-26T20:58:58Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Being depicted by the mainstream media as a fount of dangerously twisted and evil and violently disruptive ideas is a recognition that you may actually have a manifesto 🙂 Or a large supply of pipe bomb materials; it can go either way really IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/18 "2014-05-26T21:28:26Z")
recent events were more of a manifestation. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/19 "2014-05-26T22:20:09Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Agreed AHunter3, but where in the local/national media have you heard the term used (as of late, or even not as of late) in a way that is non-derogatory? Its filled with evil connotations. :eek: C’mon, you know what I’m referring to, which is the reason for this thread. 🙂 The first non-derogatory or non-negative use of manifesto that I thought of is the [Agile Manifesto.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development) While “agile” has since become a buzzword, the concepts derived from the original movement have changed the face of software development as we know it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266/20 "2014-05-27T02:36:13Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Being depicted by the mainstream media as a fount of dangerously twisted and evil and violently disruptive ideas is a recognition that you may actually have a manifesto 🙂 Agreed. 😃 That was my point in the OP. Can the term be redeemed?? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-redeem-the-word-manifesto/689266.md?page=2)