# Can you save someone's soul against their will? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2002, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528 "2002-10-09T14:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/21 "2017-10-07T12:34:25Z")
btwjesusismylordjusttobesafeIbaptisedyouat20171021intothemestophilianmysterythedoublesecretpasswordthatadherentsuseintheirsiglineisregards ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/22 "2017-10-07T14:24:59Z")
> [@Jesusismylord](#): > > My dear confused friend. I have been in this world for nearly 26 years. Until about 6 weeks ago I was pretty much a full blown atheist. At first I just hated God. If you hated God on any level, then obviously you were not an atheist. Atheists don’t think any gods exist, so what is there to hate? Why is this difficult for many theists to understand? > [@](#): > > So you are basically angry with him which is 90 percent the reason all people are athiest and most won’t admit it but still again you can’t see that with your closed heart. Same as above. > [@](#): > > Sit here and be angry with God after what he did for you so you WOULDN’T have to perish in the lake of fire for eternity. Same…And no evidence to assume he did anything, and quite a few people go through far worse experiences that what Jesus ever could have imagined, assuming he ever went through it. Many Saviors supposedly came before Christ and after to save us. Ho hum… > [@](#): > > The only one who was born without sin and evil was Jesus. Jesus wasn’t all of that, but suppose you tell me what sin is exactly? 15 years is a long time to respond to a thread, which I suppose was just a drive-by, anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/23 "2017-10-07T14:30:11Z")
> [@Jesusismylord](#): > > I have been in this world for nearly 26 years. Where were you prior? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/24 "2017-10-07T14:45:55Z")
\*\*Can you save someone’s soul against their will? \*\* In order for that question to be answerable, one must first show proof of the existence of a soul. Until that happens, the question is moot. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/25 "2017-10-07T15:37:08Z")
Maybe someday, newbie, you will grow to love and accept _ **fucking paragraphs** _. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/26 "2017-10-07T15:43:58Z")
For those of you not reading the whole thing, here is the best sentence: > [@](#): > > That’s horny was saved brother because I know this. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/27 "2017-10-07T15:51:31Z")
Congrats! You found the easter egg! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/28 "2017-10-07T16:37:31Z")
If I don’t believe in God, I get to not believe in Satan as a bonus. So I don’t need God to save me from Satan. I also don’t need God’s forgiveness to save me from God’s wrath. No God; no forgiveness; no wrath. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/29 "2017-10-07T17:26:44Z")
Jesusismylord, this is thy Lord God speaking to thou. Thou art a sinner because thou art wrong in thy opinions yond thou post. I, thy Lord God, hest thou to cease sinning if 't be true thou wish to beest saved in heaven. I, thy Lord God, wilt taketh thy dearth of followethed posts as proof on thy part yond thou hast did cease sinning, so I wilt hest St. Peter to let thou passeth the pearly gates shouldst thou continueth to not sin. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/30 "2017-10-07T17:29:25Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Jesusismylord, this is thy Lord God speaking to thou. Thou art a sinner because thou art wrong in thy opinions yond thou post. I, thy Lord God, hest thou to cease sinning if 't be true thou wish to beest saved in heaven. I, thy Lord God, wilt taketh thy dearth of followethed posts as proof on thy part yond thou hast did cease sinning, so I wilt hest St. Peter to let thou passeth the pearly gates shouldst thou continueth to not sin. …Riiiiight… ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/31 "2017-10-07T17:54:01Z")
Yaaaaaah! Get the zombie! Huah! Got that axe. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/32 "2017-10-07T20:44:39Z")
Forsaketh ye not the carriage return. For carriage returns are surely the rod and the staff of writing pleasing to the Lord. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a man bereft of carriage returns to enter into the kingdom of God. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/33 "2017-10-07T23:47:40Z")
_Who will save your soul when it comes to the flowers now Huh huh who will save your soul after all the lies that you told, boy And who will save your souls if you won’t save your own?_ ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/34 "2017-10-08T00:10:48Z")
For anyone who wants to try it, the save code for my soul is HX570PML824. That’s half-way through the 5th level, and with the _gold_ sword! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/35 "2017-10-08T00:46:23Z")
Man, in order to read that whole thing you need to be born again. As in, get a whole other lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/36 "2017-10-08T01:00:33Z")
The main answer I haven’t seen yet, is I think, the most correct. That is, that it depends on which exact religious person you ask. I studied history, and touched on a lot of Western religious history as a part of that. Christians have had TONS of arguments about who gets saved and how. Politics affected things, of course, as well as who the Pope was, and who they were most trying to cajole or force into behaving as they wanted. It’s a lot like the arguments we have these days, over laws that restrict people, and laws which offer benefits to people. The first version of the law is seen to be too “nice” or too “mean” to certain people, so after a lot of fracas and debate a new law is passed to modify the first, and things go back and forth. In Christianity, one of the larger controversies related to exactly this, is the one about whether it is ACTS which get you saved, or BELIEF ALONE. Related to that, was whether you could get into heaven just by performing the required rituals, or if you actually had to believe in your most secret core, that Jesus was your savior, or whatever. So yes, you can be saved against your will in SOME versions of these arguments, but in others, no matter what you do or don’t do, God might squint at you reeeeel hard and decide “nope, not a REAL one of my guys.” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528/37 "2017-10-08T03:24:10Z")
> [@Jesusismylord](#): > > My dear confused friend. … Welcome to the Straight Dope, Jesusismylord. If you hadn’t noticed this thread is quite old and many of the original posters are no longer active. If you’d like to discuss this topic feel free to open a new thread. I’m closing this one. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-save-someones-soul-against-their-will/131528.md?page=1)