# Can you see the x through the hole? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857 "2015-12-08T22:09:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/1 "2015-12-08T22:09:05Z")
In [this picture](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/StephenDaedalus/rotate.jpg), can you see the x through the hole? (Poll to come.) Important: in order to obtain unbiased statistics, please enter your answer before looking at the results, or other people’s posts. (Spoiler boxes are encouraged, at least in the first few posts.) I’m making the choice a binary one to keep it simple, but if you like, feel free to discuss how much (if anything) of the x you believe is visible, and also how you arrived at your answer. The picture is taken from Daniel Dennett’s ‘_Consciousness Explaines_’, where he uses it to make a point regarding the actual qualitative paucity of our subjective visual imagination—namely, that it is far less detailed than we are usually led to believe; that rather than producing high-def 3D internal projections, we actually make do with relatively poor heuristics and quick and dirty shortcuts. So this is just meant as an informal survey; I’m simply curious as to whether Dennett’s contention that typically, people can’t accomplish the visualization task pans out, or whether a consensus will emerge. By the way, I myself haven’t a clue; if there’s enough resonance in this thread, maybe somebody could whip up a quick model or work it out with graph paper or something (I might do it myself, if I find the time). ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/2 "2015-12-08T22:12:18Z")
You’re fast! I’ll upgrade my answer to … No ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/3 "2015-12-08T22:23:36Z")
Whoops, I meant to post this in IMHO, although it is also about a book… But still probably best moved. I’ve reported my post for a forum change. And for the record, my own answer is yes, you can see the top left part of the x; I’m very unsure about it, though. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/4 "2015-12-08T22:31:21Z")
My answer: I answered “no,” but because this is a question where it seems to me the answer would so obviously be “no” for most people, that the real answer is actually a surprise “yes.” I can’t imagine why else it would be posted. So, my game theory, money-on-the-line answer is “yes,” but my “does it seem to you that you should be able to see the X” is “no.” (and that is the one I voted, as that is what I assume the OP wants.) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/5 "2015-12-08T22:44:25Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > yes, you can see the top left part of the x; I’m very unsure about it, though. Hmmm istm, if you could see the top left, you could see the top right. For me the answer is done with visual/estimate geometry. Visualizing a line from the bottom front of the top block of the hole to the top of the block just in front of the space before the “x”. Does the continuation of that line connect with the x’s block low enough? I don’t think so, hence I answered no. Going at an angle can get the line steeper but I still think no. A pretty simple math problem but hard to do visually ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/6 "2015-12-08T22:45:57Z")
Yes you can see the top part of the X. After I voted, I actually made a CAD model and confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/7 "2015-12-08T22:48:47Z")
Hard to tell from the drawing but I’m going to say yes. If you divide the surface the X is on into 9 equal squares you will be able to see the top middle and top right squares. I think a portion of that X would be in that top right square. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/8 "2015-12-08T22:49:15Z")
I voted no but tried it it out using _Minecraft_. The block was 16 pixels high and the top five pixels were visible through the hole, so I think it would be possible to see the X. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/9 "2015-12-08T22:52:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > My answer: > > I answered “no,” but because this is a question where it seems to me the answer would so obviously be “no” for most people, that the real answer is actually a surprise “yes.” I can’t imagine why else it would be posted. So, my game theory, money-on-the-line answer is “yes,” but my “does it seem to you that you should be able to see the X” is “no.” (and that is the one I voted, as that is what I assume the OP wants.) I promise, there’s no gotcha involved—I genuinely have no idea about the right answer. But did you look at the results now? Either a sizable fraction are trying to ‘game’ the system as you proposed to do, or to many people it’s less obvious than to you (or actually, maybe it’s as obvious to them, but their answer differs from yours). > [@CarnalK](#): > > Hmmm > > istm, if you could see the top left, you could see the top right. For me the answer is done with visual/estimate geometry. Visualizing a line from the bottom front of the top block of the hole to the top of the block just in front of the space before the “x”. Does the continuation of that line connect with the x’s block low enough? I don’t think so, hence I answered no. Going at an angle can get the line steeper but I still think no. A pretty simple math problem but hard to do visually You’re right, actually—for some reason, I merely imagined looking through the opening dead-on, but of course, one can pan. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yes you can see the top part of the X. After I voted, I actually made a CAD model and confirmed. That’s very good, would you be willing to maybe post a screenshot (or even better, animated gif or something) somewhere? @All: maybe we can do away with the spoiler boxes now, it gets cumbersome, and anybody scrolling down this far probably either has voted, or just wants to see what others have posted. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/10 "2015-12-08T22:52:07Z")
[spoiler]Rotating the model in my head, I can see the top of the X. Doing a few calculations on paper convinces me my intuition is correct. Without taking left/right offsets into account, you should be able to see the top 1/3 of the face with the X. Some of the top left corner will be occluded by the block to the left of the gap, but not enough to obscure the X entirely. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/11 "2015-12-08T22:55:04Z")
I think you should be able to see about the top third of the square with the cross; so yes, part of the cross should be visible. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/12 "2015-12-08T23:02:37Z")
I just like using spoiler boxes ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/13 "2015-12-08T23:03:51Z")
I voted “yes” then I whipped out my old set of plastic “Soma” cubes, and actually made the puppy. And, yes, you can see about the top third of the square with the X. I’d post a photo, but at this point in time I don’t know a good photo-sharing service. Photobucket changed their workings, and now they suck. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/14 "2015-12-08T23:04:51Z")
I can’t see the X through the hole. My line of sight would be above and to the left of the little cranny that the X is in; the blocks immediately down and in front of me would be in the way of me seeing down into that crevice. ETA: and now after reading other folks’ answers I’m inclined to change my answer. I see what you mean. Well I was never great at this visual-spatial shit. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/15 "2015-12-08T23:05:50Z")
If the X isn’t completely obscured, the only part visible is the very top. It depends on how far up the top of the X extends, which isn’t known. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/16 "2015-12-08T23:14:27Z")
After making a crude drawing, it seems just about exactly the top third of the target square should be visible. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/17 "2015-12-08T23:16:18Z")
For poll purposes, I just went with my gut. That turned out to be wrong, but I’m not surprised. I knew that I’d have to do some “measuring” to get a right answer and not just guess at it. I’m confused by the point this picture is supposed to make, though. Who out there is being told that we create true, high-def 3D models in our minds? I don’t know anyone saying that. In fact, a common intelligence test question is to show you a picture of a hand and ask you which hand it is - lots of people apparently have trouble rotating the image in their head in order to figure out which arm it ought to attach to, despite “knowing it like the back of their hand.” So it just confirms to me what I’ve always known, which is that most people are pretty lousy at manipulating objects in their heads. Did I somehow grow up in a bubble? ---
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/18 "2015-12-08T23:18:05Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yes you can see the top part of the X. After I voted, I actually made a CAD model and confirmed. Can you post a picture of your CAD model? I’m curious how close my own answer is. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/19 "2015-12-08T23:35:11Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > That’s very good, would you be willing to maybe post a screenshot (or even better, animated gif or something) somewhere?d. [Original image, done in Unigraphics](https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipPubNoKXPLdrl-oahM7vjJ8Z6cJgbr7sHdQEC9b) [Through the looking window](https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipP8M-DTNPhfJvR-AnFPeDcKHThvXFGrTNq60Ktc) It’s a very small portion. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857/20 "2015-12-08T23:39:57Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > [Original image, done in Unigraphics](https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipPubNoKXPLdrl-oahM7vjJ8Z6cJgbr7sHdQEC9b) > [Through the looking window](https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipP8M-DTNPhfJvR-AnFPeDcKHThvXFGrTNq60Ktc) > > It’s a very small portion. Getting 404s. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-see-the-x-through-the-hole/739857.md?page=2)