# Can you shoot down a helicopter with a hand gun? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2003, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858 "2003-08-13T07:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![frixxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@frixxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frixxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/21 "2003-08-13T22:15:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wang-Ka \* > \*\*I’d rather be lucky than good, ANY day. > > But depending on luck is insane. At least, assuming you have a choice. > > And yes, shooting the pilot IS the easiest way to bring down a helicopter, assuming you have a clear shot. > > But, then, you’re not shooting the HELICOPTER, are you? You’re shooting a PERSON! \*\* Slice it, Dice it, you bring it down your way, I’ll bring it down my way…🆒 ---
**Author:** ![RotorHead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@RotorHead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RotorHead)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/22 "2003-08-13T23:06:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Woodall \* > \*\*I can’t attribute the source for this, but I heard that firing a pisotol into the air intakes would probably render the chopper non-combat ready in short order. I don’t know if there’s a filter or guard to keep debris or pistol-packing nimrods from doing precisely this… \*\* I don’t see that as being very likely. Firt of all, the intake area is rather small. You would still stand a better chance at the pilot. If you get the shot there, it may first pass through a vortex-generator/ particle seperator. Just a bunch of plastic really. No real harm there. Not even a noticeable drop in power. After the bullet goes through there, it could possibly strike within the compressor rotor. Chances are better of causing damage there. Still, not very strong though. Another problem is that a turbine-powered helicopter is going to have the intake positioned rather high up on the frame. So again, if you are beneath the helicopter, you don’t stand much chance of hitting it, and even less chance of passing through to the compressor turbine. The intake areas in my jetranger comprise only about two square feet total, and they are relatively out of the way. I’d still go for the pilot. Another question: are you trying to simply put the helicopter out of commission, or kill the pilot/passengers, or make it go down in a blaze of glory? Most of the emergencies that a bullet could cause are fully survivable if the pilot can autorotate. ---
**Author:** ![MarkD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@MarkD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarkD)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/23 "2003-08-13T23:49:39Z")
For a handgun you would want a powerful one, large caliber, with lots of ammo and a long barrel for accuracy. You would also want to be well within range of a choppers most vital areas. The tail rotor system including drive shafts and hangar bearings, oil cooler system, hydraulic servo systems etc. My experience with choppers is mostly with huey type units which I believe would be easier to bring down with a hand gun than a Sikorski-like machine. If you were to shoot at the helicopter, a position above and to the rear would be ideal I think. Don’t bother shooting at the main rotor those things are very substantial. concentrate on the top of the rear fin where the 90 degree gearbox is. At the junction of the tailboom and vertical stabilizer is another gear box this is a good area to fire at also. Actually all along the top of the tailboom is a good target as this is where the tailrotor driveshats are… They are spinning very rapidly and if you were to ding one or throw it out of balance, self destruction would ensue. You may be able to puncture one of the oil coolers but that may only get you an emergency landing. Yes I think the tail rotor system would be the most effective target, assuming you can hit any part of it ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/24 "2003-08-14T00:07:45Z")
I worked on HH-60s for 6 years, and have to agree with MarkD here. The tail rotor is the most vulnerable area. If you are really lucky, a shot at the main gear hub might hit a hydraulic line, but I wouldn’t count on it. If you miss, a bullet won’t do anything to the hub, which is a giant block of titanium. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/25 "2003-08-14T00:13:14Z")
Yeah. One [shot](http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976357418.htm). Anywhere _near_ the chopper. Just kidding. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/26 "2003-08-14T00:20:02Z")
Scene: Homer buying a handgun at “Bloodbath and Beyond” Gun Shop Owner: Well, you’ll probably want the accessory kit. Holster… Homer: Oh, yeah. Gun Shop Owner: Bandoleer. Homer: Baby. Gun Shop Owner: Silencer. Homer: Mmm-hmm. Gun Shop Owner: Loudener. Homer: [drooling noise] Gun Shop Owner: Speed-cocker. Homer: Ooh, I like the sound of that. Gun Shop Owner: And this is for shooting down police helicopters. Homer: Oh, I don’t need anything like that… [paranoid]…yet. _The Simpsons_ Episode 5F01, The Cartidge Family ---
**Author:** ![Wolfrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bb73d2/32.png) [@Wolfrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfrick)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/27 "2003-08-14T00:21:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Woodall \* > \*\*Well, in this one espisode of Airwolf (yeah, that’s a cite for ya’) one of the characters shot down a military chopper by firing a pistol into the little “spout” in front that it uses when refuelling in the air. > I can’t attribute the source for this, but I heard that firing a pisotol into the air intakes would probably render the chopper non-combat ready in short order. I don’t know if there’s a filter or guard to keep debris or pistol-packing nimrods from doing precisely this… \*\* In that episode, a badguy found out that the only vulnerable spot on the entire Airwolf was the in-flight refueling spout, which pointed forward like an airspeed intake. The opening was about the size of a coin, and through the episode, this egomaniac badguy was practicing shooting coins out of the hands of his lackeys with a handgun at “fifty paces” or whatever. At the end of the episode, the Airwolf obediently hovered in front of him as he took aim with his hand gun. I do not remember what happened next. Suffice it to say that anything you learned about helicopters from the show Airwolf is likely a bunch of crap. ~Wolfrick ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/28 "2003-08-14T04:00:03Z")
For all those who talk about shooting the pilot, Don’t most military aircrafts have bullet-proof glass? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/29 "2003-08-14T04:10:11Z")
Pertinent cite from an after action report from the 3rd Brigade, 25th Infantry Division in Vietnam, located [here](http://www.flyarmy.org/panel/battle/67050110.HTM), though it’s an ugly page layout, bolding is mine: > [@](#): > > s. Item: Enemy anti-helicopter tactics. Discussion: US units are almost entirely dependent upon the helicopter for resupply, therefore the volume of helicopter traffic in enemy infected areas is quite heavy. **Numerous documents captured by this organization have contained extensive training material on techniques for shooting down helicopters with small arms.** The enemy will watch as the helicopter goes into a US position and will move to a good firing position along the final approach to the LZ. He will then select a position that will allow him a good shot when the helicopter is on its final approach and is most vulnerable to ground fire. The enemy position is often several hundred meters from the LZ, making counter fire by small arms difficult. The helicopter usually delivers its resupply to units during the afternoon hours and returns to pick up empty marmite containers before sundown. Observation: The enemy tactics mentioned above can be effectively countered by saturating the approach to the LZ with fire team size patrols. This technique effectively interdicts enemy movement and provides a quick reaction force when the enemy fires on the approaching helicopter. While aiming at a particular part of a helicopter isn’t very useful unless one is a Hollywood style crack shot, helicopters are vulnerable to small arms, including pistols, though an automatic rifle would be far more useful for attempting the task. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/30 "2003-08-14T04:12:59Z")
Remember that Mel emptied his entire clip into a chopper in Lethal Weapon…ummmm…2? And we all know Riggs never missed a shot. So obviously those choppers can take a few hits. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/31 "2003-08-14T04:37:26Z")
Didn’t a Secret Service agent bring down a Huey that a renegade Army soldier was attempting to use to attack the White House in the early '70s? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/32 "2003-08-14T05:10:16Z")
Back in the 80s, CBS showed news footage of some Afghanis bringing down a Soviet helicopter with machine gun fire. **A lot** of machine gun fire. It can be done, but I’d rather have a missile. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/33 "2003-08-14T05:25:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RotorHead \* > If you get the shot there, it may first pass through a vortex-generator/ particle seperator. Helicopters have an actual real-live part called a “[particle separator](http://www.lsirucker.com/tech_lib/operators%20manual/Illustrations/Chap%202%20figs2.htm#fig2-2)” (which in turn includes one or more “vortex generators”)?!? _Cooool…_ Do the particle separator and/or vortex generators ever have to be re-modulated? Can you reverse their polarity? Say, that’s the ticket: If someone is firing on your helicopter (with a dreaded [.50 caliber sniper rifle](http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/6521901.htm), say), just re-route main power through the particle separator vortex generators! ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/34 "2003-08-14T05:45:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*Do the vortex generators ever have to be re-modulated? Can you reverse their polarity? \*\* No, but sometimes you have to reset the vortex generator circuit breakers. Take a lot of power to energize the boundry layer, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/35 "2003-08-14T05:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shalmanese \* > \*\*For all those who talk about shooting the pilot, Don’t most military aircrafts have bullet-proof glass? \*\* No, they don’t have glass at all, it’s clear plastic. It’s pretty tough, but I doubt it’s bulletproof. There are panels of bulletproof material installed in times of war, plus permanent sliding panels to protect from the side. Also, most helicopters are flown with a pilot and co-pilot. It would be pretty hard to take out the pilot with a handgun. You’d just annoy them. And then you’d be dead when they turned the m-60 in your direction. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/36 "2003-08-14T13:14:33Z")
I agree that the pilot is your best option, but I recall reading, in a military helicopter book I have somewhere, that the side guns have their sights adjusted high to compensate for the downdraft from the rotors. Would the pistoleer need to aim high so the bullet would not be pushed down and thereby ineffective. Aim for the head and hit the chest sort of thing. You would need to know the range to the copter, the feet per second for your bullet, etc. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/37 "2003-08-14T13:32:23Z")
Killing the pilot is impractical. It’s like the range is going to be at least a few dozen yards, and pistols have terrible penetration, worse at that range. A shot would most likely be angled upwards, hitting the glass (or plastic) in the cockpit at an angle, increasing the effective resistance. Even if you were a crack shot, it’s unlikely the pistol would penetrate the window at that range - and if it did so, extremely unlikely that it’s going to be fatal to the pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/38 "2003-08-14T20:36:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wolfrick \* > \*\*In that episode, a badguy found out that the only vulnerable spot on the entire Airwolf was the in-flight refueling spout, which pointed forward like an airspeed intake. > > The opening was about the size of a coin, and through the episode, this egomaniac badguy was practicing shooting coins out of the hands of his lackeys with a handgun at “fifty paces” or whatever. > > At the end of the episode, the Airwolf obediently hovered in front of him as he took aim with his hand gun. > > I do not remember what happened next. > > Suffice it to say that anything you learned about helicopters from the show Airwolf is likely a bunch of crap. > > ~Wolfrick \*\* That was the (heh-heh) pilot movie, that helped sell the TV series to CBS back in 1984. The helicopter, produced by a mysterious quasi-governmental agency called “The Firm” stages a demonstration flight, but suddenly the pilot (and main designer) fires on the tower, killing many Firm employees and wounding “Archangel” (Alex Cord, who appeared for the rest of the series with a limp and an eyepatch). The hijacker, Charles Henry Moffet (David Hemmings) flies Airwolf off to Libya (you remember Libya, don’t you? It was the Iraq of the 1980s). The surviving Firm members send Stringfellow ‘String’ Hawke (Jan-Michael Vincent), the only other man known to be able to fly Airwolf, after Moffet. At one point, Moffet’s Libyan host, Major Mufta Ben-Kamal (Frank Annese) asks Moffet what would happen if a bullet entered the intake manifold, near the rotor. Moffet explains that the manifold has armor and baffles and whatnot, so nothing, _but_ if a bullet entered this narrow harmless-looking air intake pipe jutting from the front of the chopper, kaBLAM-city! Moffet puts a single bullet in his revolver (which he was previously using to shoot coins from a lackey’s hand, as described, establishing that he is a particularly good shot, though I doubt he was training for the specific purpose of shooting down Airwolf), gives the chamber a spin, and puts the barrel in the pipe for a quick round of Russian Roulette. The chamber is empty, giving Major Mofta a serious case of the shivers and demonstrating how nutso-whacko and deserving of death this Moffet guy is. Somewhere along the way, Hawke gets his hands on Airwolf and chases Moffet into the desert. Moffet’s just killed Hawke’s girlfriend (Belinda Bauer) so _now it’s personal!_ Hawke hovers a short distance from Moffet, who then takes aim with his revolver, about to take a shot at the intake. Before he can get off a round, Hawke drops about six air-to-ground missiles on him, thoroughly toasting his ass. And thus, the series of adventures begins. ---
**Author:** ![frixxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@frixxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frixxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/39 "2003-08-14T21:04:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*That was the (heh-heh) pilot movie, that helped sell the TV series to CBS back in 1984. The helicopter, produced by a mysterious quasi-governmental agency called “The Firm” stages a demonstration flight, but suddenly the pilot (and main designer) fires on the tower, killing many Firm employees and wounding “Archangel” (Alex Cord, who appeared for the rest of the series with a limp and an eyepatch). The hijacker, Charles Henry Moffet (David Hemmings) flies Airwolf off to Libya (you remember Libya, don’t you? It was the Iraq of the 1980s). > > Somewhere along the way, Hawke gets his hands on Airwolf and chases Moffet into the desert. Moffet’s just killed Hawke’s girlfriend (Belinda Bauer) so _now it’s personal!_ Hawke hovers a short distance from Moffet, who then takes aim with his revolver, about to take a shot at the intake. Before he can get off a round, Hawke drops about six air-to-ground missiles on him, thoroughly toasting his ass. > > And thus, the series of adventures begins. \*\* You scare me :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858/40 "2003-08-14T21:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by frixxxx \* > \*\*You scare me :dubious: \*\* Good, but while I had clear memories of the events in the pilot movie (which I only saw once, 19 years ago), I had to check [imdb.com](http://imdb.com) and two other sites to gather the factual data (i.e. which network the show was on and the names of various characters and actors). Of particular note was that after Hawke had fired a bunch of missiles at Moffet, he kept puilling the trigger even though there were none left. He was just that angry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-shoot-down-a-helicopter-with-a-hand-gun/194858.md?page=3)