# Can you still call yourself (in good faith) a lesbian even if you lead a heterosexual lifestyle? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453 "2014-07-30T22:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/21 "2014-07-31T08:17:53Z")
Maybe I’m a lesbian too! I mean, I’m male and have only ever been attracted to men. In fact I’m marrying one. But I have decided to be a lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/22 "2014-07-31T08:18:07Z")
Of course not. Don’t be ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/23 "2014-07-31T08:18:42Z")
My grandma: “I only ever wanted to have sex with one person, and that one person was a guy, and that one guy, I married, and we had lots of sex and three daughters.” If the writer qualifies as a lesbian, Granny qualifies as celibate. Quasi-lesbian, if you want, or that great word queer (I like it because it’s a very useful shorthand for “not 100% hetero but there’s probably no need to go into details right now”). ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/24 "2014-07-31T08:43:47Z")
This is interesting. A colleague of mine who separated last from her long-term (8 years) female partner is now with a man. She says about herself that she “used to be a lesbian”. It doesn’t matter in the slightest to me but I did do a mental double take when she said that. My take on it is that she’s most likely bi. Lucky girl. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/25 "2014-07-31T10:03:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > She can call herself whatever she wants, but the word everyone else uses for what she is is “bisexual”. Maybe she’s a bisexual who’s closer to the lesbian end of the spectrum, but she’s bi. I’m not sure why she objects to this term. Possibly, because of this: > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Bisexual women were allowed to hang out in the lesbian community, but they were always eyed with a little suspicion, unless they were very vocal about being “lesbian-identified,” or “political lesbians,” or something. A lot of people in the gay community can be absolute shits about bisexuals, and she’s trying to avoid being treated like a barely tolerated guest in places she used to feel at home. Or, she could actually be a lesbian. **Rivkah** mentioned that you don’t have to be a perfect Kinsey 3 to be bisexual. By the same token, you don’t have to be a perfect 6 to be a lesbian. If she pulls a 5.9 on Kinsey, and this guy happens to hit that .1, I can see a case to be made that she’s still a lesbian. And, of course, there are any number of other circumstances where a lesbian might find herself in a long term relationship with a man. I’ve known two such women: in both cases, their husbands had started out as girlfriends, before they came out as transsexual. That’s probably not the case here… but who knows? Would it change anyone’s opinion if they found out her new husband used to be a woman? Or, for that matter, if he _is_ a woman, and was still closeted about it? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/26 "2014-07-31T11:20:49Z")
You can call yourself anything you want, but that doesn’t mean anyone is going to take you seriously or agree with your self-labeling, or refrain from using the label they feel fits you most accurately. So sure, she can call herself a lesbian. I can call myself the Empress of Romania. Doesn’t mean either of us isn’t being at least a touch delusional. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/27 "2014-07-31T11:36:23Z")
I don’t know why she needs to call herself anything other than married. If she were still single and looking for a partner, I could see why accurate labeling would matter. But unless it’s an open marriage (maybe it is…I haven’t read the article), I don’t understand why she should care so much about the taxonomy of her proclivities that she must announce it to the world. I guess I’m getting old and crotchety. There seem to be way too many people who believe they’ve got an interesting story to tell about their lives and way too many people willing to give them the platform they are seeking. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/28 "2014-07-31T12:58:13Z")
Anyone who refuses to refer to her, even in the third person, by whatever term she decides is homophobic. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/29 "2014-07-31T13:31:00Z")
She can call herself whatever she wants, but reading the article I don’t see that she ever really explains why the “lesbian” label is so important to her. She keeps saying that her relationship with this man hasn’t changed who she is, but not why she’s so convinced that the best label for “who she is” is “lesbian”. She says she’s not bisexual because: > [@EJ Levy](#): > > I know plenty of people who identify as bisexual; I am not. The term simply doesn’t apply. I am not, as a rule, attracted to men. I simply fell in love with this person and didn’t hold his gender against him. But bisexual is exactly the term I would use to describe someone who could fall in love with a man or a woman and not “hold their gender against them”. If for some reason this woman had come to me with her story and asked what I thought the best label for her sexual orientation was, that’s what I’d tell her. I’d probably add that for the most part I don’t think other people really give a damn about how you perceive yourself, and that the primary purpose of identifying yourself to others using a label is so that they will know what to expect from you. Labels often do come with a lot of stereotypical baggage attached that may or may not apply to the individual, but I had to roll my eyes at this: > [@EJ Levy](#): > > I had not been not surprised when my fiancé’s friends — Washington insiders with the respect for convention that city inspires — expressed shock when they discovered I was a dyke. We came from different worlds; with my long brunette hair and short skirts, I hadn’t read as queer to them. Your fiance’s friends are not surprised that you’re a lesbian because you have long brown hair and wear short skirts. They’re surprised that you’re a lesbian because _you are in love with and engaged to be married to a man_. I don’t see that she ever explains what it is about herself that she’s trying to convey to them by using the label “lesbian”, so she comes across like someone who’s more interested in being a special snowflake than actually communicating with others. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/30 "2014-07-31T13:37:11Z")
If I had a friend who continued calling herself a lesbian while loving, sexing, and marrying a non-trans dude, I’d call bullshit to her face. Because it’s hypocritical and (for lack of a better word) twee. If a stranger wants to be a hypocrite, though, it’s no skin off my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Grey\_area](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grey\_area](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey_area)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/31 "2014-07-31T14:17:43Z")
Like others have said, she can call herself whatever she wants, but her self-label probably won’t coincide with what is commonly understood by most (all?) as being a “lesbian.” Presuming this isn’t an open marriage or one with special rules, and infidelity is not OK, I find it kind of silly she chooses to call herself a lesbian. Ostensibly she’s going to have **exclusive** romantic and sexual relations with a **man** for the rest of her life. So can I be a vegan but eat meat? Because, you know, deep inside I love animals and don’t want to them to die because they taste good, but hamburgers from Joe’s is okay. In my heart of hearts I know I love animals too much to eat them but only if Joe’s burgers didn’t taste so good. Not my best analogy, but y’know what I’m saying? Seems like she “came out,” enjoyed the culture and the lifestyle of LGBT people and kinda got used to calling herself a lesbian. Perhaps she also got used to whatever positive attention you get from the label from the people she wants to associate with, and maybe the moral high ground that _some_ LGBT people think they enjoy. I’m just trying to speculate why anyone would marry a man and call herself a lesbian and the only answer I can really think of is “for attention.” ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/32 "2014-07-31T15:05:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Anyone who refuses to refer to her, even in the third person, by whatever term she decides is homophobic. > > Regards, > Shodan By that logic, if I decide I’m a spider then anyone who refuses to refer to me, even in the third person, as a spider is arachnaphobic. No so much, I think… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/33 "2014-07-31T15:07:32Z")
I wonder how her fiance feels about this. I know I’d be a little concerned if I were engaged to a woman and she insisted that she was still a lesbian despite this. It would make me wonder if she saw our marriage as a temporary situation. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/34 "2014-07-31T15:41:45Z")
Somebody should write an article for Salon titled “My romantic situation would normally qualify me to be a guest on Jerry Springer, but I have an English degree, so I’m writing this article for Salon instead.” ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/35 "2014-07-31T16:04:49Z")
She sounds silly. It’s completely possible to have a one-night stand with a guy, even after coming out, and still be a lesbian - people almost everywhere on the spectrum can occasionally get curious. But if you’re marrying a guy - in other words, if you’re giving your word that for the rest of your life you will only have sex with a man, will only romantically love a man - then no, you’re not a lesbian. You’re a bisexual whose true love has turned out to be a man. What she’s saying is the Humpty Dumpty line out of Alice in Wonderland: ‘“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”’ And then she’s getting snotty and superior because other people point out that the word in question has a commonly agreed meaning which doesn’t in fact coincide with hers. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/36 "2014-07-31T16:16:21Z")
A good friend of mine married a man, but her personal style is still solidly “lesbian” - Rachel Maddow style haircut, small car with a “See You In August” Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival bumper sticker, etc. When I got the wedding invitation, I called her and said “Eva! I thought you were gay!” and she replied “So did I!” Another gay friend told me that your orientation is determined by who you fall in love with, not by who you have sex with, which seemed like a decent metric. Plenty of prisons and ships filled with straight guys having sex with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/37 "2014-07-31T16:16:21Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > By that logic, if I decide I’m a spider then anyone who refuses to refer to me, even in the third person, as a spider is arachnaphobic. No so much, I think… It only works for gender, not species. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/38 "2014-07-31T16:22:16Z")
It sounds to me like she just doesn’t want to give up her primary social circle, which is the local lesbian community, but I really wonder how it’s going to work out when she has a husband. Is she going to spend most of her social time hanging out with lesbians, and leave her husband at home, or is she going to try to get the community to include him? Good luck with that. Eventually she’s going to drift away from socializing mainly with the lesbian community, and then maybe she’ll want to start calling herself bisexual. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/39 "2014-08-01T12:51:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It only works for gender, not species. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t think it does - I’m more of an “actions speak louder than words” kind of guy. Don’t get me wrong, it may be rude to call someone “bi” who self identifies as “lesbian” when speaking to them. It does not, in anyway, make one homophobic. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453/40 "2014-08-01T13:00:13Z")
I was being more than a little [ironic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700142&highlight=Manning+Bradley). Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-still-call-yourself-in-good-faith-a-lesbian-even-if-you-lead-a-heterosexual-lifestyle/694453.md?page=3)