# Can You Think of a Movie Where the Hero and the Villain Don't Actually Meet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 3, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309 "2002-12-03T23:44:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/21 "2002-12-04T05:02:23Z")
In _Blood Simple_, Frances McDormand’s character doesn’t realize that it’s M. Emmet Walsh’s character who is trying to kill her until the last few seconds, when he calls out to her as he’s dying. She doesn’t even know who he was. Until then, she has assumed that it was her husband, played by Dan Hedaya, who was after her. This isn’t quite the same thing, but in _Heat_, Al Pacino and Robert De Niro’s character only meet twice. Once is in the diner when Pacino tries to persuade De Niro not to go through with whatever crime he’s planning. The other is in the last few seconds as Pacino holds De Niro’s hand as he’s dying. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/22 "2002-12-04T05:34:26Z")
> [@](#): > > In Snatch I’ve never been quite cetain which is the good guy and which is the bad guy in that film, but if I ever figure it out, I am willing to bet they probably didn’t meet. I always assumed Turk was the good guy and the guy who wanted to feed him to the pigs was the bad guy. But maybe Tommy Four-Fingers (was that his name? It was something Four-Fingers) was the real bad guy, since he stole the diamond in the first place and caused all the problems. If Turk was the good guy, then they definitely didn’t meet… ---
**Author:** ![OcularGold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3e96dc/32.png) [@OcularGold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OcularGold)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/23 "2002-12-04T06:06:32Z")
5th element? spoiler: bruce willis never meets the main bad guy (cant remember his name), but milla jovavich fights him. he ends up getting blown up later on. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/24 "2002-12-04T07:33:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TV time \* > > **Lizard** , take a read of the book or even watch the movie _Day of the Jackel_ and see where they got the plot for _The Fourth Protocol_. \*\* Damn. Can’t believe I never thought of that. Considering both books were written by Frederick Forsythe, I can’t believe I never noticed. Dumbass smilie for me.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/25 "2002-12-04T07:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*I think the prime example of what the OP is talking about would be [Enemy at the Gates](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0215750). There is a _direct_ contest between the two protagonists, but they never see one another’s faces (except once, through a gunsight, IIRC). \*\* You’re forgetting the very end. Ed Harris’s character comes out of the tank and runs across the torn-up landscape and is caught off guard by Jude Law. They stare at each other for awhile before the final kill. Perhaps this is what you are referring to in the “through a gunsight” comment, but I would consider this scene as them meeting one another. ---
**Author:** ![ravage2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d07c76/32.png) [@ravage2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ravage2)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/26 "2002-12-04T14:39:30Z")
Spygame. If you count Robert Redford as the main protagonist and not Brad Pitt. And if you count the Chinese government as the bad guys and not the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/27 "2002-12-04T14:41:32Z")
> [@](#): > > How about Phantom Menace / AOTC? The heroes _still_ haven’t met Darth Sidious face-to-face… Oh yes they have. They just don’t know it. AOTC makes it clear the power of the Dark Side to obscure. Its mostly seems to obscure Lucas from logic, but I digress 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/28 "2002-12-04T15:12:15Z")
The Matrix. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/29 "2002-12-04T16:18:29Z")
Hmm… If you count Al as the Villian and not the Prospector, I’d say Toy Story 2. The Toys drop unconscious every time Al’s around (and awake). Note that this almost holds for Toy Story 1, except that the toys reveal themselves to Sid at the climax. Star Trek 2 was my first thought, too. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/30 "2002-12-04T16:39:09Z")
**Lone Star** might qualify. The hero (a Texas sheriff) is investigating the death of the villain (a past sheriff). Not exactly a traditional hero-villain tale (there’s a whole lot of other stuff going on), but it sort of qualifies. And yeah, **Braveheart** is another. Longshanks and Wallace are on opposite sides of a battlefield at one point, but that’s as close as they get, and there’s no indication they even see each other. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/31 "2002-12-04T16:46:21Z")
Oh yeah, and how about **The Truman Show**? Jim Carrey’s character never meets the director. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/32 "2002-12-04T17:21:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*Oh yeah, and how about **The Truman Show**? Jim Carrey’s character never meets the director. \*\* That occurred to me as well, but Truman and Christof have a lengthy conversation at the end. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/33 "2002-12-04T17:26:38Z")
I wanted to say The Truman Show!! TURDS! ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/34 "2002-12-04T17:27:18Z")
_The Wind and the Lion_ [http://us.imdb.com/Title?0073906](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0073906) If you consider this movie as a contest between Roosevelt and Raisuli, then this would qualify. The closest the two ever come to meeting is in the final scene, when Roosevelt reads a letter from Raisuli. As for which the hero and which is the villain: well, it depends on your politics. ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/35 "2002-12-04T17:28:48Z")
Darn, I was beat to the punch. Braveheart. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/36 "2002-12-04T17:48:41Z")
I would just like to say that on my IE title bar, the title of this thread is truncated to: > [@](#): > > Can You Think of a Movie Where the Hero and the Villain Don’t Act And, yes. Yes, I can. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/37 "2002-12-04T17:54:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apollyon \* > **Lord of the Rings**? We won’t know for sure until Return of the King, but unless PJ is going to deviate a very long way from the book… I have faith. How exactly do you meet a giant flaming eyeball on top of a tower? ---
**Author:** ![Maci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Maci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maci)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/38 "2002-12-04T17:59:47Z")
> [@](#): > > In _Day of the Jackel_ while the policeman causes the assissin’s death, he doesn’t actually do it and they don’t really meet. \*\* Actually the detective does kill the Jackal (at least in the book) after the Jackal shoots the patrolman who is first through the door. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/39 "2002-12-04T18:09:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\*I have faith. How exactly do you meet a giant flaming eyeball on top of a tower? \*\* Are we still worried about spoilers for a book that was written lo, these many moons ago? 'sides, the good guys already met him. Elrond & Isildur did, anyway… for Frodo to meet up with Sauron would require as much of a departure from the book as, say, eliminating Tom Bombadil or having Arwen ride out from Rivendell to save Frodo. Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309/40 "2002-12-04T18:26:05Z")
I contend that The Ring is the villain in Lord of the Rings. And even if the villain is Sauron, then: Aragorn confronts Sauron via the Palantir in ROTK. Also, I was under the impression that Gandalf mentioned that Sauron had achieved corporeal form. Thus, the giant eye on top of Barad Dur is just a glorified periscope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-think-of-a-movie-where-the-hero-and-the-villain-dont-actually-meet/140309.md?page=3)