# Can you truly empty a box? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 18, 2026, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794 "2026-02-18T18:09:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/21 "2026-02-19T13:38:08Z")
Yeah. If you think Nature abhors a vacuum, you ain’t seen nuthin’ compared to how much she doesn’t like a hole in spacetime. That sucker’s gonna fill in fast and _hard!_ 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/22 "2026-02-19T13:49:40Z")
> [@EnolaStraight](#): > > Okay…let’s just say I’ve acquired godlike powers that can bend the very laws of physics to my whim. > From within the box, I remove the very concept of left-right x forward-backward x up-down x before-after. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Once you introduce the magical power to alter spacetime, then the answer transmutes to “Whatever else your magick dictates it might be.” To rephrase in a bad Chico Marx accent: Ya got-a da gahd-like powers, ya make-a da gahddam rules. — — Wikipedia on Vacuums: European scholars such as Roger Bacon, Blasius of Parma and Walter Burley in the 13th and 14th century focused considerable attention on issues concerning the concept of a vacuum. The commonly held view that nature abhorred a vacuum was called horror vacui . There was even speculation that even God could not create a vacuum if he wanted and the 1277 Paris condemnations of Bishop Étienne Tempier, which required there to be no restrictions on the powers of God, led to the conclusion that God could create a vacuum if he so wished. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/23 "2026-02-19T14:04:34Z")
The answer depends on who owns the box, you or Pandora? ---
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/24 "2026-02-19T14:52:23Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You’ve assumed spacetime and direction and distance are the same thing. You might be right, but you might not. Let’s suppose that they _are_ the same. Let’s also suppose…like a perfect vaccuum or Absolute Zero…we cannot remove all of Spacetime from the box. It is an unreachable extreme. But I have the “power” to subtract a significant quantity of spacetime from the box. According to Special Relativity, spacetime is a rather flexible, stretchy field. If I were to take a volume of spacetime merely an atom wide and forcefully stretch that volume to reach the inner walls of my human-scale macroscopic box, the inside of that box is going to “want” to be only one atom wide. A small bit of spacetime…stretched wide and tight…pulling stuff from the periphery inward. Is this description gravity? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/25 "2026-02-19T15:36:45Z")
OP, this is just like _your_ box factory tour, isn’t it? ISN’T IT? [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hPu7MiPkEk0/hqdefault.jpg "box factory - the simpsons") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPu7MiPkEk0) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/26 "2026-02-19T15:40:03Z")
Is “nothing” the minimum, or is “nothing” like zero, just the middle point of infinity? Can you fill the box with something that’s _less_ than nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/27 "2026-02-19T16:19:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Can you fill the box with something that’s _less_ than nothing? Antimatter? A small black hole? I guess you better make sure to label that box **really** well. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/28 "2026-02-19T16:22:16Z")
Here’s a tale of a box with a single mundane thing inside that later gets rather out of hand: **[Hair Dryer - What if? xkcd.com](https://what-if.xkcd.com/35/)**. Some better labeling on that thing early on may’ve saved the day. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/29 "2026-02-19T17:55:14Z")
If this makes your head hurt, consider that if you cut a piece of netting, it now has FEWER holes in it… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/30 "2026-02-19T17:56:21Z")
It’s like that old riddle… “What gets bigger the more you take away?” A hole. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/31 "2026-02-19T18:12:21Z")
And I thought that physicists using spherical cows were stretching things… ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/32 "2026-02-19T18:26:27Z")
[Zero point energy has entered the chat.](https://www.quantamagazine.org/in-quantum-mechanics-nothingness-is-the-potential-to-be-anything-20260105/) I suppose that’s the physics nerd answer. As a person with a dusty, disused science degree I beg to differ. If the wife says “recycle this box”, the box is empty. It doesn’t matter if it still contains air, quantum foam, or tangible objects, it’s empty, and it better not be sitting there tomorrow morning. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/33 "2026-02-19T18:30:23Z")
Your box has to be made of unobtainium too. Otherwise, as you keep removing things you make the vacuum stronger and the molecules of the box’s walls begin to migrate to fill the space. This will continue until there is no longer an identifiable box. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2026, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/34 "2026-02-19T21:45:37Z")
Is that similar to frictionless chickens? ---
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/35 "2026-02-21T05:14:16Z")
CalMeacham? Chronos? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/36 "2026-02-21T07:12:28Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > due to the Uncertainty Principle, the supposedly empty box is always teeming with virtual cats This is the answer. Due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, the box may or may not contain a Cat, which – per the Copenhagen interpretation – may or may not be dead. There is no way to know for sure without looking in the box and, if a Cat is present, poking it. But even if the box is empty, as soon as you look away the problem repeats itself, as Cats can appear out of nowhere (and sometimes annihilate each other, with a great deal of hissing involved). So no, the box can never be assured to be truly empty. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/37 "2026-02-21T16:39:25Z")
> [@EnolaStraight](#): > > If I were to take a volume of spacetime merely an atom wide and forcefully stretch that volume to reach the inner walls of my human-scale macroscopic box, the inside of that box is going to “want” to be only one atom wide. You’re describing what happened during inflation, when space increased by gazillions of percent in a teensysecond. The resulting spacetime did not in any way “want” to be only one atom wide. It contained as many particles/waves as the volume would permit. Spacetime is not itself a particle. ---
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/38 "2026-02-23T04:05:59Z")
There’s a common analog of spacetime being represented as a trampoline, and gravity is the curvature of a bowling ball on it. The trampoline’s fabric has a tension which keeps it taut: remove the bowling ball, and the curvature disappears, making the trampoline’s surface once again flat. Does not spacetime have a tension? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/39 "2026-02-23T12:18:32Z")
> [@EnolaStraight](#): > > There’s a common analog of spacetime being represented as a trampoline, and gravity is the curvature of a bowling ball on it. Rather a bad analogy, isn’t it? If gravity is the curvature of a stretchy surface caused by the weight of a bowling ball, what is pulling the ball down in the first place? And what is “down”? > [@EnolaStraight](#): > > Does not spacetime have a tension? In General Relativity (whatever is happening on a quantum level to make all this happen), space-time has a stress-energy, which— think of a gravitational wave— is going to be non-zero when there is a deviation from flat space-time. The strength of the “tension” here is reflected in the gravitational constant. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794/40 "2026-02-23T12:30:10Z")
According to quantum physics, even the vacuum of interstellar space is not empty. Particles come in and out of existence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-truly-empty-a-box/1027794.md?page=3)