# Can you turn gay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755 "2009-07-30T04:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/21 "2009-07-30T19:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Keep in mind that just because something is biological, it doesn’t have to be genetic. It’s is highly unlikely, given the results of twin studies, that the biololgical aspect of sexual orientation is completely genetic. It may be, as some studies suggest, at least partly determined by hormonal exposure during fetal development. Yes, that’s the point I was making. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/22 "2009-07-30T19:38:48Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > \*Can you turn gay? > \* > Only if you make a WIS vs. WILL roll on a d20. Crit fails due to incompatible rulesets where the D20 system uses Wisdom to substitute for Will. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/23 "2009-07-30T20:25:07Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > [No.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347856) 🙂 > > Now for a serious question: I’ve heard some gay men say they always knew they were gay, or they realized it at an early age. What’s it mean to have a sexual preference when you’re too young to be interested in sex? 😕 Personal anecdote, I remember being 5 or 6 and being excited about girls, trying to see up their skirts and such, long before I knew what sex was. This makes me think that in many cases, sexual orientation is biological. I think some people that ‘turn gay’ are just in denial for a while and then accept what their body has been trying to tell them for a long time. Satch (lifelong dirty old man) ---
**Author:** ![Other\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Other\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Other_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/24 "2009-07-30T20:40:00Z")
It wasn’t until I was in puberty that I realised I was gay. It started as just another day…sorry, I had to. It started as an absence of attraction. I was shocked to find that, unlike my peers, I wasn’t developing an attraction for girls. Then the attraction to males started after that. It was weird. What makes the above so strange is to find out one day, whilst eating an orange, that I had various homosexual incidents in my childhood before that. I didn’t remember them. One incident being that, while watching Princess Bride, I couldn’t keep my eyes off Westley. I remember being embarrassed over the whole thing, and hoping no one would find out. It doesn’t surprise me so much that I suppressed a childhood memory - I don’t remember most of it. What does surprise me is that my homosexuality had presented itself earlier than I had been thinking. I am not sure why I shared that with all of you…I’ll shut up now. 😛 ~S.P.I.~ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/25 "2009-07-30T20:43:34Z")
> [@Satchmo](#): > > Personal anecdote, I remember being 5 or 6 and being excited about girls, trying to see up their skirts and such, long before I knew what sex was. This makes me think that in many cases, sexual orientation is biological. I think some people that ‘turn gay’ are just in denial for a while and then accept what their body has been trying to tell them for a long time. > > Satch (lifelong dirty old man) Yeah, I was going to say, “sexual attraction” is probably better understood as, “which sex you’re attracted to,” rather than, “who you want to have sex with.” Attraction can manifest itself long before any real awareness of or desire for sex. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/26 "2009-07-30T21:31:33Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Anytime a gay woman or man’s nature is brought up, almost always a corresponding phrase such as, “they were born that way” goes along with it. It makes sense, and could certainly be the case for most gay people, but is it always true for each and every gay human being alive? I know two people who grew up to be interested in having partners of the same sex due to sexual abuse as a child. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/27 "2009-07-30T21:36:38Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > What’s it mean to have a sexual preference when you’re too young to be interested in sex? 😕 I had my first same-sex fantasy at the age of 5. Of course i didn’t know it was a sexual fantasy since I knew absolutely nothing about sex. But almost 59 years later, I still remember every detail of the fantasy, and exactly how it made me feel. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/28 "2009-07-30T21:40:53Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Crit fails due to incompatible rulesets where the D20 system uses Wisdom to substitute for Will. That’s not the D20 system; it’s 4th edition (D&D). Said system most certainly does have Wisdom attacks (D20 + wisdom modifier) and Will defense (like armor class, but calculated in using factors similar to the D20 system’s will saving throw bonus). It can also have Str versus Reflex or Dex versus Fortitude and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/29 "2009-07-30T21:45:34Z")
The amazing thing about this fantasy is that the boy who was the object of that fantasy bore a striking resemblance to the man who would, 37 years later, become my partner. So even at the age of 5, I already knew what my favorite “type” was. ---
**Author:** ![Other\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Other\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Other_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/30 "2009-07-30T22:18:43Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The amazing thing about this fantasy is that the boy who was the object of that fantasy bore a striking resemblance to the man who would, 37 years later, become my partner. So even at the age of 5, I already knew what my favorite “type” was. Brown hair, Caucasian, with attention-grabbing eyes (not necessarily due to colour) and pinkish-reddish lips? Yep, my “ideal” has been there all along. The people I am attracted to most tend to have the characteristics mentioned above. Aside from that I have a broad definition of attraction. As long as they have pinkish-reddish lips and are male, there is a chance I’ll be attracted to them. A chance, mind. Sorry if this was unrelated. ~S.P.I.~ ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/31 "2009-07-30T22:43:49Z")
> [@Satchmo](#): > > Personal anecdote, I remember being 5 or 6 and being excited about girls, trying to see up their skirts and such, long before I knew what sex was. This makes me think that in many cases, sexual orientation is biological. I think some people that ‘turn gay’ are just in denial for a while and then accept what their body has been trying to tell them for a long time. > > Satch (lifelong dirty old man) I remember being 7 or 8 and anyone who confessed to not hating every girl in the world would have been tarred, feathered, and excommunicated from boyness forever. THEY’RE ICKY! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/32 "2009-07-30T22:53:40Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > That’s not the D20 system; it’s 4th edition (D&D). Said system most certainly does have Wisdom attacks (D20 + wisdom modifier) and Will defense (like armor class, but calculated in using factors similar to the D20 system’s will saving throw bonus). It can also have Str versus Reflex or Dex versus Fortitude and so forth. I see, I’d better shut up before they revoke my gamer license. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/33 "2009-07-30T23:43:38Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > I remember being 7 or 8 and anyone who confessed to not hating every girl in the world would have been tarred, feathered, and excommunicated from boyness forever. THEY’RE ICKY! Too true! I guess, before I hit puberty, I was a closet heterosexual! That’s just too funny! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/34 "2009-07-31T00:37:57Z")
By the way . . . If you can “turn gay,” you can also “turn straight.” And there’s no evidence that this is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/35 "2009-07-31T01:56:17Z")
I think the OP question is equivalent to the question, “Can you turn straight?” I am pretty much straight, but in early childhood I was neither straight nor gay, and my heterosexuality instantiated itself in a somewhat staged way. Earlier on I had grade school relationships that we spoke of as romantic but in retrospect seem more imitative. Later there was a more instinctive and physical drive underlying it. Depending on exactly what we mean by “turn gay” or “turn straight”, I think I would have to say that I turned straight and my best guess is that everybody turns straight or gay or whatever they are going to be. But I would also have to guess that whatever dictates this is mostly or completely settled for us before we can really remember it happening. Maybe that means whatever turned, turned long before, and what happenes later is just the development of what is already set, and not a turning at all. Also, to be more accurate, we can’t really draw a distinct line between “straight” and “gay” (and anything else for that mattter). I have certainly had some gay attractions, especially during my most amorously ambitious years, but the straight ones have been stronger and more numerous. I think that, if the ideal person and situation had come along, I might well have had a gay relationship and always considered gayness more a part of me. That would not have meant I was any different at the point where that relationship started. If it had happened, would it mean I was any different now? I think it has to, in some ways, and couldn’t, in others. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/36 "2009-07-31T02:10:13Z")
I just wish my sister’s husband would have figured out which way he wanted to turn before they had been married for 26 years and had two kids. His “turning gay” has been a bit stressful, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/37 "2009-07-31T03:43:48Z")
> [@kittenblue](#): > > I just wish my sister’s husband would have figured out which way he wanted to turn before they had been married for 26 years and had two kids. His “turning gay” has been a bit stressful, to say the least. I’ve known many gay men and women who didn’t realize they were gay until they were in their 40s, 50s, or even later. Of course every family deals with this in a different way, sometimes not too well. But I’ve known many other families that really grew from the experience and remained close. ---
**Author:** ![Stentor\_2.5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@Stentor\_2.5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stentor_2.5)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/38 "2009-07-31T04:30:32Z")
I remember reading an article in a magazine once about a pair of twins. One was gay, the other straight, which implies that either the straight one was in the closet or that environment has some influence on sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/39 "2009-07-31T04:42:44Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Also, to be more accurate, we can’t really draw a distinct line between “straight” and “gay” (and anything else for that mattter). I have certainly had some gay attractions, especially during my most amorously ambitious years, but the straight ones have been stronger and more numerous. I think that, if the ideal person and situation had come along, I might well have had a gay relationship and always considered gayness more a part of me. That would not have meant I was any different at the point where that relationship started. If it had happened, would it mean I was any different now? I think it has to, in some ways, and couldn’t, in others. I see where you’re coming from. I am definitely a straight guy but I can say I’ve felt an attraction with another man. Looking a little too long in his eyes or enjoying his touch a little. But it’s enough to make me feel a bit nervous and think, “that’s gay.” Now I’m not going to pursue homosexuality for a number of reasons, and I don’t think I’d actually like it, but I don’t think I’ll ever know for sure. I’m just saying I could see where another person might enjoy that kind of thing, and since we are all so similar, might everyone be just a little gay? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755/40 "2009-07-31T05:12:20Z")
> [@Stentor\_2.5](#): > > I remember reading an article in a magazine once about a pair of twins. One was gay, the other straight, which implies that either the straight one was in the closet or that environment has some influence on sexuality. I know a gay man who has an identical gay brother. He has no explanation for this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-you-turn-gay/504755.md?page=3)