# Canada and the Coronavirus **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 30, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643 "2020-03-30T05:02:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/864 "2021-12-18T01:24:18Z")
What you present actually highlights how poor the mRNA is. Fifteen years versus months. But breakthrough is not just a factor of vaccine effectiveness. A person can have their immune system compromised for many reasons. Applies to the conventional and mRNA ones as well, even during their effective time period. It is not always due to just vaccine efficacy waning. I know none of them are 100%. Combine that with some health issue that weakens the immune system and they can probably all be beaten. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/865 "2021-12-18T01:48:09Z")
Again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the vaccine is mRNA. Waning immunity from other covid vaccines is also observed. Waning immunity is also seen with prior covid infection. I would also like to see a cite for you claim that Sputnik is superior to other covid vaccines right after vaccination and more than six months later. I know of no real world studies looking at effectiveness past six months or even better effectiveness within three months than the mRNA or AZ/mRNA combos. There are tons of data out there showing that the mRNA vaccines protect very well against infection. That protection wanes after six months. A simple booster brings that protection up to higher levels than even after the first two shots which suggests that the regular schedule for those vaccines should have been three doses in the first place. Also, why do you want ivermectin? Do you have scabies or worms? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/866 "2021-12-18T05:31:19Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > What you present actually highlights how poor the mRNA is. Fifteen years versus months. > [@Tfletch1](#): > > Again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the vaccine is mRNA. Waning immunity from other covid vaccines is also observed. Waning immunity is also seen with prior covid infection. Tfletch1 is right. The rapid waning of immunity to COVID is typical of coronaviruses and similar diseases. [Here’s a helpful article explaining why.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-vaccines-last-a-lifetime-heres-why-covid-19-shots-dont-11631266201) > [@](#): > > Why don’t Covid-19 vaccinations last longer? > > Measles shots are good for life, chickenpox immunizations protect for 10 to 20 years, and tetanus jabs last a decade or more. […] > > Historically, the most effective vaccines have used [replicating viruses](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2245896), which essentially elicit lifelong immunity. > > Measles and chickenpox vaccines use replicating viruses. > > Non-replicating vaccines and protein-based vaccines (such as the one for tetanus) don’t last as long, but their effectiveness can be enhanced with the addition of an adjuvant—[a substance that enhances the magnitude of the response](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html). […] > > Complicating things further, viruses and bacteria that mutate to escape the body’s immune response are harder to control. > > Measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox hardly mutate at all, but at least eight variants of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, have been found, [according to the British Medical Journal](https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1971). > > “It does make it more complicated for the vaccine to work,” Dr. Slifka said. “You’re chasing multiple targets over time. Flu also mutates. With flu, we’ve adjusted by making a new flu vaccine each year that as closely as possible matches the new strain of flu.” […] > > “Vaccines are very unlikely to lead to long-lasting herd immunity for many respiratory infections,” Dr. Antia said. “The herd immunity only lasts for a modest period of time. It depends on how fast the virus changes. It depends on how fast the immunity wanes.” > > Part of the problem is that coronaviruses replicate in both the upper and lower respiratory tracts. > > “We have good circulation in our lungs and body, but not on the surfaces of our nostrils,” Dr. Slifka said. “We can block severe disease because there are antibodies in the lower respiratory tract.” > > But the risk of low-level infections in the upper respiratory tract can persist. > > Moving forward, Covid-19 vaccines will be updated to combat variants of the virus, and according to researchers at Imperial College London, the next generation of vaccines might also focus on enhancing immunity in the moist surfaces of the nose and lungs. > [@Kedikat](#): > > I know none of them are 100%. Combine that with some health issue that weakens the immune system and they can probably all be beaten. Yes, there is probably no form of COVID vaccination (and probably never will be) that provides 100% guaranteed immunity to all COVID infections. There are always going to be some breakthrough cases. Which makes it all the more important for individuals and governments to focus on public-health measures, such as high vaccination rates, that will significantly reduce risk for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/867 "2021-12-18T15:56:29Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Unfortunately it’s not looking that way. Which means the flat hospitalization rate is almost certainly a result of vaccinations. So in that regard, it is having a positive effect. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > It is worth saying that ICU numbers despite this have remained stable in Ontario. At one point it was claimed catching Covid was inevitable. It’s certainly clear now that COVID-19 is going to become an endemic disease, but then I always thought that was true; it would have been an unbelievable stroke of luck if it was an exterminable disease like smallpox. We can’t be locked down forever, but what would be unfortunate - but it’s possible - is if Canadian hospitals will permanently have to have more resources on hand specifically geared towards treating patients with respiratory illness. > [@Kedikat](#): > > What you present actually highlights how poor the mRNA is. Fifteen years versus months. You’re confusing two different things. The short timeframe COVID-19 vaccines seem to have isn’t because they’re mRNA vaccines, or else anyone who got a shot of AstraZeneca or Johnsonand Johnson, which are not mRNA vaccines, would have way longer lasting immunity. Or flu shots, which are not mRNA vaccines, would last a long time, but they don’t. This is just - like influenza - not something one treatment will give you long term immunity against. Remember that the vaccine doesn’t stay in your body. Within a week or two there is not a single substance remaining in your body from the vaccine. And by the way, the Sputnik vaccine is absolutely not more effective than Moderna. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/868 "2021-12-18T16:10:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Which means the flat hospitalization rate is almost certainly a result of vaccinations. So in that regard, it is having a positive effect. Vaccination is definitely still having a positive effect on outcomes, my point was that “some people” are claiming it is less severe. This is not proven out and if something causes 20% lower chance of hospitalizations per infected person but infects 10x as many people, we’re not coming out ahead. As a lagging indicator, the next two weeks are going to tell if we are screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/869 "2021-12-18T17:06:38Z")
The claim that ICU admissions in Ontario have remained stable at 160 admissions for Covid for two weeks is true and significant. The claim this wave is less severe is unproven. If so, the role of vaccination must be considered. If you have a lot more cases, you should have more bad ones but this has not really been yet reflected in Ontario. However, there are places where hospitalization rates are up 20%, often where the population is more unvaccinated. There is no guarantee the future will fully reflect the past and a contagious form which causes severe symptoms would obviously be concerning. If getting a mild case prevents a serious future strain, also speculative, it is possible one comes out ahead. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/870 "2021-12-18T19:04:45Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > This is not proven out and if something causes 20% lower chance of hospitalizations per infected person but infects 10x as many people, we’re not coming out ahead Oh that’s definitely the case. It’s all math. We’ll see. And we aren’t even sure all the increase is omicron. Perhaps there is also more delta, which DOES make you really sick, and it could be rising along with omicron because of people being indoors more. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/871 "2021-12-18T19:20:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > And we aren’t even sure all the increase is omicron. The stats today showed 2/3 Omicron, 1/3 Delta. Those are lagging stats as the provincial lab that does the typing is quite behind. I’ve seen tweets that are pegging Omicron at likely 90% of today’s numbers. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/872 "2021-12-18T19:24:45Z")
That does make sense; logically, if it’s more contagious, Omicron will push Delta into extinction. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/873 "2021-12-18T22:04:47Z")
Boosted. Pretty much unconcerned about my own health at this point, though obviously there’s plenty to be concerned about beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/874 "2021-12-19T13:53:27Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Ontario is up to 3124 cases of Covid today, a significant jump. Not looked closely at the numbers but have heard the unverified claim cases may double every three days or less. My sister and her husband both work with Health Canada. They told me the other day that the doubling time is about 2 days, which is consistent with the numbers I’ve seen the past few days. That’s a significant change from the original COVID, which had a doubling time of about 3.5-4 days. This version is doubling much faster, even with all the vaccinations and masking and social distancing. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/875 "2021-12-19T17:37:58Z")
Ontario was over 4,000 yesterday. Still no significant uptick in ICU admissions or fatalities but the growth is still rapid and the unvaccinated aren’t very overrepresented in yesterday’s numbers, which suggest omicron punches through old vaccines pretty easily, but then doesn’t hurt you much. We will see; ICUs could still be crunched if infections get wildly high. I’m thinking of going ahead with my Vegas vacation because it might end up being safer to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/876 "2021-12-19T19:38:53Z")
Unlike many provinces, BC is not reducing the wait time for the third booster shot, saying the science insists the best time to administer it is 6 months after the second shot. The provincial health officer and government are taking a lot of heat over this. Is their argument sound? Are other provinces just playing politics by essentially kicking the third shot out of helicopters? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/877 "2021-12-20T03:11:39Z")
Depends on the profile of the disease and health care capacity. Ontario did get shots in arms to a number of people by June/July. 6 months is now. BC modeling as of the14th of December. They are expecting potential cases/hospitalizations exceeding the previous peak _however_ it depends on how this new variant behaves. > **[12.14.21\_PHO\_modelling.pdf](https://news.gov.bc.ca/files/12.14.21_PHO_modelling.pdf)** I’m not an expert but if I’m leading a province and I’m told jab now and move effective protection from 75 to 90 (decaying back to 75 in 4 months) vs. wait another 1-2 months and move the effective protection from 60 to 90 (decaying away to 75 8 months) I would opted for the jab. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/878 "2021-12-20T14:30:05Z")
8AM this morning, Ontario expanded eligibility to all 18+ to book a booster. I logged into the provincial web portal at 7:59AM, and waited in a queue for about 50 minutes. The first available appointment is…February 10. Seven gorram weeks away. Unreal. I’m sure I’ll have already had Omicron by then. I’m still registered with a couple of different pharmacies, just hoping one of them comes through with something sooner. Hearing from some friends that the site was actually live last night (haven’t confirmed) and by the time they logged at the supposed start time this morning, there were no appointments in Ottawa available at all. Congrats Ontario. Another smooth operation. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/879 "2021-12-20T14:34:18Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > I’m still registered with a couple of different pharmacies, just hoping one of them comes through with something sooner. I have an appointment on Jan. 7 but am on a lot of waiting lists. Last time the waiting lists did come through with a lot of appointments., ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/880 "2021-12-20T14:44:01Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > 8AM this morning, Ontario expanded eligibility to all 18+ to book a booster. I logged into the provincial web portal at 7:59AM, and waited in a queue for about 50 minutes. The first available appointment is…February 10. Seven gorram weeks away. Unreal. I’m sure I’ll have already had Omicron by then. I’m still registered with a couple of different pharmacies, just hoping one of them comes through with something sooner. > > Hearing from some friends that the site was actually live last night (haven’t confirmed) and by the time they logged at the supposed start time this morning, there were no appointments in Ottawa available at all. > > Congrats Ontario. Another smooth operation. I happened to be up early this morning and gave it a try (booking the booster shot) around 7:30 AM. Wait time to get into the website was estimated at 34 minutes at the time, but turned out to be about 25. When I finally got in, the closest available facility with available appointments was 27 km away, which pissed me off because there is a provincial mass vaccination site just up the street. I booked it anyway – earliest was Jan 9, but I picked Jan 11. I’ll cancel if something comes up at the nearby site but at least I have something. I had similar frustrations booking my second shot, but eventually got an appointment at the local place. One nice thing about the booking system is that you can keep changing your appointments if something closer or sooner comes up, and it automatically cancels your previous one. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/881 "2021-12-20T15:10:54Z")
Booster availability has greatly expanded here in Alberta, with new age groups being admitted every week. My wife and I have been eligible for booster shots for about two weeks now, I think… except we can’t, because my work permit renewal is delayed indefinitely due to COVID delays, and Alberta has cut off our health card renewal due to that delay. I’m still paying taxes, but I can’t get healthcare. In the middle of a pandemic. Why no, I’m not freakin’ terrified, why do you ask? My wife works for the Oilers, and was going to drag me to a game tonight. She like hockey, I don’t care to watch any sports. She found out this morning, though, that the NHL has now postponed all cross-border games. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/882 "2021-12-20T15:16:47Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > the NHL has now postponed all cross-border games. I noticed in a recent CBC News article that the Calgary Flames and Canucks have also been affected by game cancellations. It seems that because of omicron, we’re back to where we were about 18 months ago. It’s nice to see researchers working on new and improved vaccines, but I have a feeling that before this is over I’m going to have so many jab holes I’m going to feel like a colander. Thank you, anti-vaxxers, for running COVID mutation farms. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643/883 "2021-12-20T16:41:26Z")
I’m in the 50+ cohort and when my wife and I first tried to get boosters it was the 10 of January. We poked a day or so later, wound up on the 3rd so waited and tried again. Booster was Sunday at Costco I’ve a sore injection site but feeling not too bad. It seems the scheduling/supply structure always has to play catchup with provincial directives. But they do seem to manage eventually [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-and-the-coronavirus/850643.md?page=45)