# Canada believes in censorship **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497 "2011-01-13T18:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/1 "2011-01-13T18:59:21Z")
Canada just banned Dire Straights’ “Money For Nothing” because it has the word “faggot” in the lyrics. [Link.](http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/01/13/dire-straits-money-ruled-offensive-canada/?test=faces) So much for being an enlightened, First-World nation. By their logic, we should ban every song that is gramatically incorrect because it could offend English majors. And every song that celebrates hetero love must go because gays might feel discriminated against by the lyrics. Og only knows what the First Nationers will have to say about a song like “Indian Giver” or “Indian Reservation.” What say you, fellow music listeners? Good idea, or a giant step backwards? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/2 "2011-01-13T19:18:31Z")
There was a similar controversy over the song _Fairytale of New York_ by the Pogues (feat. Kirsty McCall RIP), “you scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot…” Is this too banned from Canadian airways? I’m not too hot on works of art being banned, no matter how nefarious I think they are. However, I’m not in any significant marginalised minority group. I can’t really think of what someone might sing that would seriously offend me, so I can’t really say whether songs such as this should or shouldn’t be aired. In general I’d be more in favour of the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council and similar entities elsewhere encouraging broadcasters not to air such songs rather than locking them down completely. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/3 "2011-01-13T19:51:32Z")
In general, I find Canada has struck a good balance between allowing free speech and not allowing hate speech. That’s how we shut down [Jim Keegstra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Keegstra) and [Ernst Zundel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Z%C3%BCndel), both of whom are major league assholes. This particular ruling by the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council is really stupid and makes us all look like fools. It’s especially embarrassing because the word ‘faggot’ is used in the song for the purpose of making the person speaking seem like a redneck asshole. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/4 "2011-01-13T19:52:25Z")
did they ban Alice’s Restaurant too ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/5 "2011-01-13T20:03:01Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Canada just banned Dire Straights’ “Money For Nothing” because it has the word “faggot” in the lyrics. America is trying to persecute and prosecute a journalist for telling the truth. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/6 "2011-01-13T20:04:00Z")
It appears that the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council only reacts to specific complaints, and they in fact received a specific complaint regarding this song. The ruling was: > [@](#): > > […] [L]ike other racially driven words in the English language, “faggot” is one that, even if entirely or marginally acceptable in earlier days, is no longer so. The Panel finds that it has fallen into the category of unacceptable designations on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, gender, sexual orientation, marital status or physical or mental disability. What an utter disgrace. As **Le Ministre** points out, the use of “faggot” here is a narration by the red-neck appliance mover in the song, not a slur by Mark Knopfler. I’m embarrassed by the ruling. Yes, I can see “Alice’s Restaurant” following next. I’m emailing complaints@cbsc.ca tonight and launching my own complaint regarding this decision. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/7 "2011-01-13T20:04:11Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > America is trying to persecute and prosecute a journalist for telling the truth. 🙂 …but was it an inconvenient truth? (duck & runs) ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/8 "2011-01-13T20:10:08Z")
The little faggot got his own jet airplane AND he’s a millionaire so it’s really a positive tune. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/9 "2011-01-13T20:10:27Z")
I’m more disappointed that the Foxnews website censored their own use of the word faggot. ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/10 "2011-01-13T20:24:31Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > There was a similar controversy over the song _Fairytale of New York_ by the Pogues (feat. Kirsty McCall RIP), “you scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot..” Is this too banned from Canadian airways? Picking nits and being mischevious: Kirsty MacColl. And you want to get inflamatory . . . Where’s the C word? I’m sure the C word was there the last time I listened but it doesn’t show up on any google searces of lyrics I can find. Sheesh! I’ll have to dig out the just put away Christmas CDs and have another listen. Although the BBC tried this in 2007, they eventually backed down due to complaints. From MacColl’s family no less. Maybe we could get them to write a letter to the CBSC. > **[Fairytale of New York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairytale_of_New_York#Censorship)** > > "Fairytale of New York" is a song written by Jem Finer and Shane MacGowan and recorded by their London-based band the Pogues, featuring English singer-songwriter Kirsty MacColl on vocals. The song is an Irish folk-style ballad and was written as a duet, with the Pogues' singer MacGowan taking the role of the male character and MacColl playing the female character. It was originally released as a single on 23 November 1987 and later featured on the Pogues' 1988 album If I Should Fall from Grace... ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/11 "2011-01-13T20:42:25Z")
Well, let’s first look at a few facts. “Canada” has not banned anything. The ruling was made by the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council (CBSC), which is (according to the [CBC](http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2011/01/13/money-for-nothing-radio-play-censor.html)): > [@](#): > > The council is an independent, **non-governmental** group created to administer standards established by its members, Canada’s private broadcasters. Its membership includes more than 700 private radio and TV stations across the country. Emphasis added. So the Canadian government, and by extension “Canada” as I’d suggest is commonly understood in the context of the title of this thread, has not censored anything. All Canadians’ (including the Canadian media’s) rights to freedom of expression as guranteed by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms continue to exist. Next, the ruling itself. [Here it is](http://www.cbsc.ca/english/decisions/2011/110112.php), in its entirety. You can read it for yourself, if you like. Reading through the decision, albeit quickly, I don’t see where the CBSC demands that the song must never be played again unless it is edited. Rather, the issue is more along the lines of “In playing the long version of ‘Money for Nothing,’ did this particular radio station breach any of the Canadian Association of Broadcasters’ (CAB) Code of Ethics and Equitable Portrayal Code?” We’re looking for a yes/no answer to a question that arose from a past event, in other words. I also don’t see where the decision states that the song must never be played again unless it is edited. What I do see is an answer to the question (from the decision, link above): > [@](#): > > The Panel Adjudicators read all of the correspondence and listened to the challenged broadcast of the song. The Panel concludes that CHOZ-FM breached Clause 2 of the CAB Code of Ethics, and Clauses 2 and 7 of the Equitable Portrayal Code. The Panel also found that CHOZ-FM breached Clause 9 of the Equitable Portrayal Code and that Clause 10(a) of that Code did not relieve CHOZ-FM of those breaches… > > … [T]the Panel concludes that, like other racially driven words in the English language, “faggot” is one that, even if entirely or marginally acceptable in earlier days, is no longer so. The Panel finds that it has fallen into the category of unacceptable designations on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, gender, sexual orientation, marital status or physical or mental disability. In addition to the terms already so categorized by previous CBSC Panels, there are undoubtedly other racial epithets (not yet the subject of CBSC Panel decisions) that would likely fall into the category of words that are inherently problematic. In any event, the Atlantic Regional Panel concludes that the use of the word “faggot” in the song “Money for Nothing” was unacceptable for broadcast and that, by broadcasting an unedited version of the song, CHOZ-FM breached Clause 2 of the CAB Code of Ethics, and Clauses 2, 7 and 9 of the Equitable Portrayal Code. The Panel notes parenthetically that the song would not otherwise fall afoul of any of the foregoing broadcast standards if suitably edited. So, te question of whether any breaches of the Code occurred is answered in the affirmative. Note that the CBSC stops short of demanding that the song never be played again unless edited; it merely indicates that the song would not breach the Code if edited. So what’s next? Well, according to the decision, the radio station has to broadcast that it did in fact breach the Code. That’s it, that’s all. As for what’s really next, I’d suggest that (a), the CBSC will be flooded with complaints from Canadians complaining about this decision; (b) the CBSC will be flooded with complaints about rap/hip-hop lyrics; (c), radio stations will put the full unedited version of “Money for Nothing” in heavy rotation just out of spite; and (d), music critics and columnists will have a field day. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/12 "2011-01-13T20:53:18Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > … I’d suggest that (a), the CBSC will be flooded with complaints from Canadians complaining about this decision; (b) the CBSC will be flooded with complaints about rap/hip-hop lyrics; (c), radio stations will put the full unedited version of “Money for Nothing” in heavy rotation just out of spite; and (d), music critics and columnists will have a field day. I hope you’re right **Spoons** , but I doubt it. Of course you’re the lawyer here… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/13 "2011-01-13T20:53:57Z")
So what’s the penalty for breaching the code of ethics? Do they take away the station’s Timbits? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/14 "2011-01-13T20:57:49Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > So what’s the penalty for breaching the code of ethics? Do they take away the station’s Timbits? :eek: Surely there is some kind of Candadian equivalent to “cruel and unusual punishment.” ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/15 "2011-01-13T21:02:18Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > So what’s the penalty for breaching the code of ethics? Do they take away the station’s Timbits? The radio station has to announce, over the air, that they breached the code of ethics. One announcement must be made within three days of the decision and another a few days after the first; and the station must prove to the complainant and the CBSC (via copies of station logs) that the announcements were made. Like I said, that’s it, that’s all. I see nothing in the decision that mentions fines or similar punishments. If the decision demanded no Timbits in the broadcast booth, I think we’d see a severe backlash against the CBSC. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/16 "2011-01-13T21:02:27Z")
> [@gregorio](#): > > Although the BBC tried this in 2007, they eventually backed down due to complaints. From MacColl’s family no less. Eventually, less than 24 hours later, on one of the many stations due to an over-zealous show editor playing the version designed for the US market? ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/17 "2011-01-13T21:09:24Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Well, let’s first look at a few facts. The OP’s link was to Fox News… surely we don’t expect _facts_. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/18 "2011-01-13T21:18:42Z")
> [@](#): > > […] [L]ike other **racially** driven words in the English language, “faggot” is one that, bolding mine So… homosexual is a race now? ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/19 "2011-01-13T21:22:07Z")
Jeeze. Guess that explains why the hell a parrot would have his own jet airplane. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497/20 "2011-01-13T21:36:11Z")
> [@gregorio](#): > > Picking nits and being mischevious: > > Kirsty MacColl. > > And you want to get inflamatory . . . > > Where’s the C word? I’m sure the C word was there the last time I listened but it doesn’t show up on any google searces of lyrics I can find. Sheesh! I’ll have to dig out the just put away Christmas CDs and have another listen. > > Although the BBC tried this in 2007, they eventually backed down due to complaints. From MacColl’s family no less. Maybe we could get them to write a letter to the CBSC. > > [Fairytale of New York - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairytale_of_New_York#Censorship) Thanks nitpicker, i should have reviewed my comment. Anyways there’s no cunt in Fairytale of New York, I think you’re thinking of A Cunt Tree Christmas by HR Hackensack. ETA: Wait am I allowed use cunt I forget? No offence intended… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-believes-in-censorship/567497.md?page=2)