# Canada is catching up to The United States! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916 "2004-05-19T04:05:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/21 "2004-05-19T14:48:03Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Shit. We done been foiled by logic, boys. Lets fold our tent. 😛 Seriously, I never read the entire link that you posted. I got about three paragraphs in and experienced a true WTF? moment. I couldn’t force myself to read any more of Dolt Lady. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/22 "2004-05-19T15:14:53Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Seriously, I never read the entire link that you posted. I got about three paragraphs in and experienced a true WTF? moment. I couldn’t force myself to read any more of Dolt Lady. Oh, I knew you were kidding. You’ve been around long enough that if you were prone to posting stupid stuff, I would have noticed before. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/23 "2004-05-19T15:14:57Z")
After a final read-through, message is sent. They’ve published my letters on SSM before – let’s see how this one (and Weirddave’s and Punha’s excellent letters) does. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/24 "2004-05-19T15:21:20Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > You heard it here, folks. Men work, women stay in the kitchen and have babies. Must be difficult to have babies in the kitchen, though. At least, for the first 3 or 4 of 'em. “Pick up your brother, would you?” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/25 "2004-05-19T15:24:22Z")
WeirdDave I would appreciate it if you would reconsider your position that all fundamentalist Christians, whom you called “fundies” in your OP, are knuckle-dragging opponents of gay rights. It simply is not true. > **[Atheism and Agnosticism](https://www.learnreligions.com/atheism-and-agnosticism-4684819)** > > Learn more about atheism and agnosticism with resources covering the philosophies, skepticism, and critical thinking of the free-thinking community. And if you really want to take the high road, please do not simultaneously complain about bigotry while labeling people you don’t know with words intended to be pejorative. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/26 "2004-05-19T15:29:35Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > WeirdDave > > I would appreciate it if you would reconsider your position that all fundamentalist Christians, whom you called “fundies” in your OP, are knuckle-dragging opponents of gay rights. It simply is not true. Rereading the OP, I don’t see where he ever said that. Methinks in your zeal to create controversy wherever you go, you have made stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/27 "2004-05-19T15:38:14Z")
Gee, Lib, that’s interesting because the article you linked mentions someone who considers himself a fundamentalist Christian who supports gay rights. My reference was to “Fundies”, a subset of Fundamentalist Christianity ( although it is almost all-encompasing, be honest if nothing else ) who do believe that they have every right to use their particular religious beliefs as the basis for secular laws, and are totaly fine with descrimination as long as they can justify using their personal superstitions. Sorry Lib, I gotta stand by the term I used. If you consider yourself a fundamentalist Christian, yet you support things like gay rights, SOCS, the freedom of others to follow a different religion, etc…Why, then, you’re not a Fundie. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/28 "2004-05-19T15:38:31Z")
> [@Tdn](#): > > Rereading the OP, I don’t see where he ever said that. Methinks in your zeal to create controversy wherever you go, you have made stuff up. Lordy, this is like Elaine giving George his card with the nipple showing. I can shove your nose in it, but you have to open your eyes. Move your cursor to the top of the page, hit Ctrl-F, type in “fundie”, and press Enter. ---
**Author:** ![Eric\_the\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4491bb/32.png) [@Eric\_the\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric_the_Black)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/29 "2004-05-19T15:54:15Z")
Here is some info about this woman, from CBC > [@](#): > > C. GWENDOLYN LANDOLT > FREELANCE WRITER > > C. Gwendolyn Landolt graduated from the Faculty of Law, University of British Columbia, and was called to the BC Bar. She has had an extensive legal career in private practice, as a Crown prosecutor and as a lawyer with the federal government. She is National Vice President of REAL Women of Canada, a 55,000 member national women’s organization which was founded in 1983. She has also published some of her essays which can be read at (This may shock you) [http://www.conservativeforum.org](http://www.conservativeforum.org/essayslist.asp?SearchType=6&AuthorID=404). There she speaks out against Gays, Feminism, The United Nations, and Media Bias. Also, remember that group she belongs to? Or should I rather say she is “National Vice President” of? [Real Women](http://www.realwomenca.com/), here are their stated objectives: > [@](#): > > Our view is that the family, which is now undergoing serious strain, is the most important unit in Canadian society. We believe that the fragmentation of the Canadian family is on of the major causes of disorder in society today. > > Our objectives are as follows: > > To reaffirm that the family is society’s most important unit, since the nurturing of its members is best accomplished in the family setting. > > To promote the equality, advancement and well being of women, recognizing them as interdependent members of society, whether in the family, workplace or community. > > To promote, secure and defend legislation which upholds the Judeo-Christian understanding of marriage and family life. > > To support government and social policies that make homemaking possible for women who, out of necessity, would otherwise have to take employment outside the home. > > To support the right to life of all innocent individuals from conception to natural death. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/30 "2004-05-19T15:56:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Lordy, this is like Elaine giving George his card with the nipple showing. I can shove your nose in it, but you have to open your eyes. Move your cursor to the top of the page, hit Ctrl-F, type in “fundie”, and press Enter. For one thing, I have no interest in your nipples. For another… > [@](#): > > The lack of a large fundie contingent and a general live and let live attitutde towards gay folks in specific have made me feel that in the area of gay rights, at least, Canada is far and away a better place than America. I do not see the words “All fundmentalists are anti-gay” anywhere in that. I think we can agree that while not all fundamentalists are anti-gay, the anti-gay sentiment runs pretty deep in a large portion of them. Hell, most of them will readily admit to that. Dave argued (or one could say he did, had he not cleared up his message) that where there is a lack of fundies, there might also be a lack of, or a mitigation of, homophobia. That’s not an unreasonable hypothesis to test. You, on the other hand, seem to be seeking offense when none was offered. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Eric\_the\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4491bb/32.png) [@Eric\_the\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric_the_Black)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/31 "2004-05-19T15:58:31Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Gee, Lib, that’s interesting because the article you linked mentions someone who considers himself a fundamentalist Christian who supports gay rights. My reference was to “Fundies”, a subset of Fundamentalist Christianity ( although it is almost all-encompasing, be honest if nothing else ) who do believe that they have every right to use their particular religious beliefs as the basis for secular laws, That would be the third objective to “Real Women” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/32 "2004-05-19T16:22:46Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Sorry Lib, I gotta stand by the term I used. If you consider yourself a fundamentalist Christian, yet you support things like gay rights, SOCS, the freedom of others to follow a different religion, etc…Why, then, you’re not a Fundie. I take no solace in knowing that you are not slurring me personally, but rather someone else. What you just said is rather like saying to a black person offended by your use of the n-word to refer to someone other than him, “Well, if you’re not a lazy person or a political agitator, why then, you’re not a n\*\*\*\*r.” ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/33 "2004-05-19T16:29:56Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > After a final read-through, message is sent. They’ve published my letters on SSM before – let’s see how this one (and Weirddave’s and Punha’s excellent letters) does. Eh, I’m not overly worried if they don’t print mine. I figure they got at least two letters from Americans, and they probably weren’t expecting them, so maybe then run one, maybe they run both, maybe they run neither. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/34 "2004-05-19T16:38:37Z")
**Weirddave** was schadenfreude really the sentiment you were trying to express with that letter, or is that just what I’m getting out of it? Second, what the heck are “anatributed assertations”? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/35 "2004-05-19T16:47:14Z")
> [@](#): > > What you just said is rather like saying to a black person offended by your use of the n-word to refer to someone other than him, “Well, if you’re not a lazy person or a political agitator, why then, you’re not a n\*\*\*\*r.” Well, Lib, people see what they expect to see, I suppose. For example, I see the word “Fundie” as more synonymous with “asshole” than with “nigger”, as the N-word is used by intolerant people to indiscriminantly slur black people. However, “Fundie” is applied to certain folks quite discriminantly, based solely on _their own_ behavior. To cut it short: People need to EARN the privilege of being labeled a “fundie”. Not so for racial slurs. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/36 "2004-05-19T16:58:19Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > **Weirddave** was schadenfreude really the sentiment you were trying to express with that letter, or is that just what I’m getting out of it? Second, what the heck are “anatributed assertations”? Sarcasm was more the intent, although there is a certain element of schadenfreude, sure. An unatributed assertation is something that is simply stated as fact when it is no such thing. There are 3 in this paragraph alone: “homosexual relationships last only a fraction of the length of time of most marriages – between two and three years). “Commitment” in same-sex couples is different in that sexual faithfulness is not a requirement. Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sexual partners in his lifetime.” No proof is offered for any of these claims, and in fact they are all demonstrateably false, or at least, inaccurate, when one goes to look for proof. Lib, what Spoofe said. Comparing a word that describes a person’s choice of how to behave and/or believe(things that are voluntary) with a word that describes someone’s innate physical characterists(things that are involuntary, beyond an indvidual’s control) is disingenious at best, and intentionally misleading at worst. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/37 "2004-05-19T16:58:56Z")
I have received a response to my email, from the CBC Ombudsman. > [@](#): > > Dear Ms. \*\*\*\*\*\*\*: > > I write to acknowledge receipt of your communication, which I have > shared with Mary Sheppard, Chief Producer of CBC News Online, along with > the request that your concerns be addressed. > > Yours truly, > > David Bazay > Ombudsman Just yer basic ‘I hear you’, but it’s better than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/38 "2004-05-19T17:12:03Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > An unatributed assertation is something that is simply stated as fact when it is no such thing. I know what an unattributed assertion is. I was questioning what an “anatributed assertation” is, as neither word appeared in my dictionary although they both looked remarkably word-like. In other words, it was a lame spelling flame and I should probably know better. Clearly my powers of sarcasm are weak. We now return you to your regularly scheduled game of “Just what is Lib talking about, anyway?” ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/39 "2004-05-19T17:21:55Z")
This is awful. On Mother’s Day I was at my mother’s house, and I noticed in the Toronto Star an ad taken out by [Focus on the Family](http://www.fotf.ca/promo/20040506/index.html), with a smiling, heterosexual, white couple and their fair-haired child, surrounded by smiling, (presumably heterosexual) white people, and text along the lines of “We believe in Mom and Dad … we believe in family” I just about choked on my Mother’s Day cheese and crackers, and prepared to write an angry letter to the Toronto Star on the subject. And then I saw the ads printed in the Globe, and both papers continue to print them. (The Post as well, I think, and most likely the Sun, although those don’t surprise me.) And I saw letters to the editor pointing out the hateful subtext of the ads, and letters from FOTF supporters saying “Where’s this ‘tolerance’ all you gays are always on about? What about freedom of speech?” and letters from others saying ‘Your tolerance has nothing to do with me’ and a letter from the Star’s ombudsman defending the choice to print the ad (since it’s not openly ‘hateful.’) I’ve been digesting this ever since and I think I’m ready to join the debate. And now this. This is appalling. I’ve encountered those so-called REAL women before and these are the type of people who make me hesitant to call myself feminist. What inspires me about all this is that we the people don’t seem to be taking it lying down. The papers are hearing about the FOTF ads, and the CBC is hearing about these so-called REAL women, and they will continue to do so. Recently the Supreme Court affirmed its previous decision on third-party advertising in election campaigns. Meaning, in the upcoming federal election, people like FOTF cannot spend much money on commercials telling us to vote Conservative. So I guess that is a good sign as well. Well, the debate will continue. We will keep writing letters (letters@globeandmail.ca; lettertoed@thestar.ca) saying this is unacceptable. The anti-SSM folks will continue to be exposed as hateful. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916/40 "2004-05-19T18:15:23Z")
**cowgirl** , I recently saw that ad (or a similar one) in a Calgary paper, too. It didn’t surprise me very much, as Ralph hasn’t been reticent about declaring how no gays are getting married in Alberta any time soon. Buncha rednecks around here… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-is-catching-up-to-the-united-states/245916.md?page=3)