# Canada: It's beginning to look like an election **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 27, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413 "2008-08-27T13:39:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/21 "2008-08-28T21:30:33Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] The only possible reason I can think of for Harper to break yet another campaign promise and force an early election is that the Conservatives are terrified about what’s going to come out of the investigation in the In-and-Out scheme. As we’re in MPSIMS, I’ll restrain myself and call this balderdash. If the opposition parties got together and forced an election, there’s nothing Harper could do about it and he wouldn’t be to blame. But to bring down his own government? That’s a clear violation of his promise. But what else can we expect from the government that’s done more in 2 years to compound Canada’s “Democratic Deficit” than the Liberals managed in 12 years? [/QUOTE] [Sure.](http://www.reformedemocratique.gc.ca/includes/send_friend_eMail_print.asp?sendFriendEmailFlg=True&URL=/eng/media.asp&media_category_id=1&id=1372&langFlg=e) > [@](#): > > This does not affect the prerogative of the Prime Minister to advise dissolution at any time prior to the stipulated date, in the event of a loss of confidence. Where a government loses the confidence of the House of Commons, a general election would be held in accordance with existing practices. The general election following this would then be set for the third Monday in October in the fourth calendar year. Harper is stating that Dion will not be supporting him in the next parliamentary session, and so therefore a loss of confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/22 "2008-08-28T23:38:22Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Harper is stating that Dion will not be supporting him in the next parliamentary session, and so therefore a loss of confidence. [/QUOTE] Harper can say whatever he likes. Dion has not indicated one way or the other whether the Liberals are willing to defeat the government. It’s absurd to claim that the government has lost the confidence of Parliament when the government has not yet lost a matter of confidence in Parliament. It’s not like Parliament hasn’t had ample opportunity to defeat the Conservatives. This “loss of confidence” idiocy is Conservative spin aimed to deflect attention away from the fact that the Conservatives are breaking a direct campaign promise, and unlike the Income Trust fiasco they can’t honestly claim that they’re being forced into it this time. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/23 "2008-08-28T23:48:16Z")
IANAL, but I suspect that the first section in the Act renders the second section legally toothless, and there would be no legal impediment for the GG (on the advice of the PM of course :rolleyes: ), to set an election date later than the one specified in the Act. Constitutionally, the GG calls the election, and there is no restriction other than the 5-year limit on the GG, which Section 1 acknowledges. Anyone with a better knowledge of Canadian constitutional law able to comment on this? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/24 "2008-08-28T23:54:29Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Harper can say whatever he likes. Dion has not indicated one way or the other whether the Liberals are willing to defeat the government. It’s absurd to claim that the government has lost the confidence of Parliament when the government has not yet lost a matter of confidence in Parliament. It’s not like Parliament hasn’t had ample opportunity to defeat the Conservatives. This “loss of confidence” idiocy is Conservative spin aimed to deflect attention away from the fact that the Conservatives are breaking a direct campaign promise, and unlike the Income Trust fiasco they can’t honestly claim that they’re being forced into it this time. [/QUOTE] Well, no. Harper has apparently repeatedly asked to meet with Dion prior to the next by-elections and parliamentary session and Dion has refused. That’s what I’ve read. So Harper is stating that he might need to call an election to attempt to make parliament actually functional. Sounds fairly straight forward to me. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/25 "2008-08-29T00:24:46Z")
OK…but that’s not how the system works. You don’t lose the confidence of the House over a double-double at Tim’s. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/26 "2008-08-29T00:49:30Z")
[QUOTE=Kid\_A] OK…but that’s not how the system works. You don’t lose the confidence of the House over a double-double at Tim’s. [/QUOTE] Hey, point taken. All I’m saying is that there’s no legal reason (new bill C-16 included) that specifically prevents Harper from calling a fall election. Within his minority mandate, he’s perfectly allowed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/27 "2008-08-29T01:46:22Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Hey, point taken. All I’m saying is that there’s no legal reason (new bill C-16 included) that specifically prevents Harper from calling a fall election. Within his minority mandate, he’s perfectly allowed to do so. [/QUOTE] Except it points out how useless his “fixed election date reform” is in reality. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/28 "2008-08-29T02:35:42Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Hey, point taken. All I’m saying is that there’s no legal reason (new bill C-16 included) that specifically prevents Harper from calling a fall election. Within his minority mandate, he’s perfectly allowed to do so. [/QUOTE] Nobody is saying it’s illegal, Leaffan, they’re saying it demonstrates an element of dishonesty in his “Fixed election date” law, which amounted to an implied promise not to call a snap election date. The criticism of hypocrisy is one hundred percent justified, and I say that a voter for this government. The Conservatives bellyached about election call maneuvring for years, passed an act sort of promising not to do it themselves, and now they’re doing it themselves, pure and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/29 "2008-08-29T05:51:57Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Nobody is saying it’s illegal, Leaffan, they’re saying it demonstrates an element of dishonesty in his “Fixed election date” law, which amounted to an implied promise not to call a snap election date. The criticism of hypocrisy is one hundred percent justified, and I say that a voter for this government. The Conservatives bellyached about election call maneuvring for years, passed an act sort of promising not to do it themselves, and now they’re doing it themselves, pure and simple. [/QUOTE] I hear ya. I still see the bill as more applicable to majority governments who wait until the planets are perfectly aligned before calling an election. In a minority government it’s almost impossible to wait for a fixed date. This is, after all, the longest serving minority government which has served Canada. So calling an election now, after 2 1/2 years can hardly be called hypocritical. ETA: Of course this is politics and opinions are strong. I admit that I may be seeing things through blue tinted glasses. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/30 "2008-08-29T07:37:04Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] They’re called Lieutenant Governors. [/QUOTE] > [@alphaboi867](#): > > And they’re appointed/dismissed by the Governor General on the Prime Minister’s advice, not directly by the Queen on the local Premier’s advice. Interesting. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/31 "2008-08-29T11:38:11Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] Expect the call this Tuesday. [/QUOTE] Obviously an attempt by Soviet Canada to take over the news cycle in the U.S. and distract people from Sen. McCain’s nomination. ☹ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/32 "2008-08-29T12:09:21Z")
No one covers state level elections. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/33 "2008-08-29T13:19:26Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] I hear ya. I still see the bill as more applicable to majority governments who wait until the planets are perfectly aligned before calling an election. [/quote] That’s just silly. A majority government could just repeal the bill. It’s not particularly popular that I can tell. > [@Leaffan](#): > > In a minority government it’s almost impossible to wait for a fixed date. This is, after all, the longest serving minority government which has served Canada. So calling an election now, after 2 1/2 years can hardly be called hypocritical. Well, yes, I’m quite sure Harper expected to have lost a confidence vote by this time. That doesn’t change the fact that he kvetched loudly about election timing gamemanship, passed a law that pretended to outlaw it, and is now doing it himself. Textbook definition of hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/34 "2008-09-02T17:59:58Z")
I see this thread is still here. I was hoping that it would have disappeared in the change to the new server, thus also disappearing our soon-to-be election. Oh well, looks like there will have to be an election after all. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/35 "2008-09-02T18:04:24Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > And pronounced “Leftenant Governors.” To preserve an interesting discussion we had that got lost, it actually is “Leftenant Governors,” not “Leftenants Governor.” Thanks to **mattmcl and RickJay** for their insights into the grammar of that. I don’t remember all of it, but the explanations included Big Macs rather than Bigs Mac. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/36 "2008-09-02T18:06:15Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I see this thread is still here. I was hoping that it would have disappeared in the change to the new server, thus also disappearing our soon-to-be election. Oh well, looks like there will have to be an election after all. ☹ Just the bit at the end got truncated. So I’ll say it again. Things just got weirder. An Independent MP, Blair Wilson, has now [joined the Green Party](http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=f19fbd63-ad33-456f-8831-a35abdf347a0). If Parliament actually sits this fall before an election, he will sit as a Green MP. As it looks, though, Shephen Harper will pull the plug on this Parliament, and we’ll go into a general election. This means that the four federal by-elections scheduled for the 8th will be… nullified? ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/37 "2008-09-02T18:32:48Z")
I’ll repost my prediction from before: No party will gain/lose more than 10 seats based upon their total at the dissolution of the House. Obviously, this means that we’re going to have another Conservative minority. What I don’t understand is that if this happens, wouldn’t it be hypocritical of Harper to form a government if it’s the exact same situation that he previously declared as dysfunctional. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/38 "2008-09-02T18:49:03Z")
> [@Kid\_A](#): > > No party will gain/lose more than 10 seats based upon their total at the dissolution of the House. Obviously, this means that we’re going to have another Conservative minority. > > What I don’t understand is that if this happens, wouldn’t it be hypocritical of Harper to form a government if it’s the exact same situation that he previously declared as dysfunctional. You’re assuming that the dysfunction that Harper’s been whining about (and for which he is largely responsible) is really why he’s calling the election. IMHO, this election is all about keeping the Liberals off-balance. Keep throwing them curveballs in the hopes of minimizing their effectiveness and fanning the flames of internal dissent. Even if parliament returns to a conservative minority status-quo, the Liberal party could end up being weakened by internal squabbling and second guessing. This totally unnecessary election goes directly against the best interests of the country and the electorate, but it’s canny political manoeuvring by Harper. I despise the man but admire his political instincts. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/39 "2008-09-02T19:12:44Z")
You despise the man? I mean, really… I wouldn’t even say that I despise Gilles Duceppe? I may disagree with him politically, but why would I despise someone I don’t even know personally. I think you need to take a deep breath and rethink that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413/40 "2008-09-02T20:17:23Z")
Nope, I’ve been thinking and re-thinking it for over 2 years and I despise him. He’s an arrogant bully who shows open contempt for parliament and parliamentary procedure. The conservatives even released a document giving instructions on how to thwart parliamentary committees. And then he has the gall to whine about parliamentary dysfunction. He’s centralized power in his own hands even more so than Chretien and decreased government transparency and accountability despite his election promises to the contrary. He routinely gags his ministers except when he wants them to act like attack dogs, like Flaherty’s pointless haranguing of the McGuinty Gov’t. He outright disobeys laws he finds inconvenient (fixed election dates and Kyoto) and meddles with independent regulatory bodies when he doesn’t like their findings. He’s still better than Paul Martin, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-its-beginning-to-look-like-an-election/461413.md?page=3)