# \[Canada\] Trudeau gets to work **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 5, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709 "2015-11-05T14:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/141 "2015-11-15T04:10:27Z")
No one is suggesting blindly bringing in people. Of course not. That would literally be suicide, however, by dedicating sufficient resources to get the absolutely necessary very thorough vetting done, we can immediately increase the number of people we help without cutting corners on the vetting process. Prior to the 9/11 terrorist attack in New York, the deadliest airplane based terrorist attach was Air India flight 182. Sikh terrorists from British Columbia blew it up in-flight southwest of Ireland, murdering 329 people, including 268 Canadians. It was the largest mass murder of Canadians ever. Our present Minister of Defence is a Sikh who emigrated to British Columbia in Canada when he was five, and was fifteen when Air India 182 went down. We are very fortunate to have immigrants of such high calibre, including our Minister of Democratic Institutions, who was a child refugee from Afghanistan. We must do what we can to reduce radicalization, but not at the expense of the multiculturalism that has helped us become a fine country, and not at the expense of ceasing to hold out a helping hand to those in desperate circumstances. The simple fact is that there are good and evil people from all cultures, so an argument to shut out one culture or another holds for shutting out all people from any culture. Canada has done well in the last half century by accepting immigrants from all cultures. I think we would do very well to continue this way. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/142 "2015-11-15T04:33:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Probably because with 25 000 people coming from a war zone it’s not that unlikely a few bad apples will sneak through even if our screening is pretty good. A determined “bad apple”–someone who is already essentially aligned with the apocalyptic-jihadi cause–is likely to be able to get in even if you (we, any given country) turn away 100% of refugees. They may have resources. On the other hand, the act of turning hard against refugees keeps more innocent people in the meat grinder of the former Syria, and inspires greater resentment against the West. What happens when you take desperate people and cut off their choices? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/143 "2015-11-15T04:53:56Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > No one is suggesting blindly bringing in people. Of course not. That would literally be suicide, however, by dedicating sufficient resources to get the absolutely necessary very thorough vetting done, we can immediately increase the number of people we help without cutting corners on the vetting process. > Prior to the 9/11 terrorist attack in New York, the deadliest airplane based terrorist attach was Air India flight 182. Sikh terrorists from British Columbia blew it up in-flight southwest of Ireland, murdering 329 people, including 268 Canadians. It was the largest mass murder of Canadians ever. > > Our present Minister of Defence is a Sikh who emigrated to British Columbia in Canada when he was five, and was fifteen when Air India 182 went down. We are very fortunate to have immigrants of such high calibre, including our Minister of Democratic Institutions, who was a child refugee from Afghanistan. We must do what we can to reduce radicalization, but not at the expense of the multiculturalism that has helped us become a fine country, and not at the expense of ceasing to hold out a helping hand to those in desperate circumstances. > > The simple fact is that there are good and evil people from all cultures, so an argument to shut out one culture or another holds for shutting out all people from any culture. Canada has done well in the last half century by accepting immigrants from all cultures. I think we would do very well to continue this way. I agree with everything you said, but you’re talking about immigration in general, for which we have high standards. I’ve met quite a few recent immigrants and I’ve been impressed by their work ethic, skills, education, and general character. The problem here is what is essentially a “refugee exemption” where all the normal immigration rules go out the window. This is what concerns me, and it’s no small thing. Immigrants are not immune to criminality and we have no shortage of evidence in ethnically based gang wars, car theft rings, and of course the infamous [Toronto 18 terrorism plot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Ontario_terrorism_plot). Politically motivated refugee policies like [the Mariel boatlift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift) had disastrous impacts especially in Florida that continue to this day. The numbers we’ve committed to seem huge, and while I’d be the last to suggest we blindly follow US policy on anything, maybe it’s worth a look at how and why the US, with ten times our population, decided they can only admit twice as many refugees as our quota. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/144 "2015-11-15T05:46:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Trudeau[intends to follow through](http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-plans-to-follow-through-with-plan-to-withdraw-warplanes-and-resettle-25000-syrian-refugees) with resettling 25,000 refugees from Syria. (according to “sources”) > > This does not bother me one little bit. > > I have confidence that our security apparatus is up to the task of screening refugees, and also making sure that they are not radicalized when they are here. This is the MAJOR task ahead, and I think it will be done as well as we can do it. > > One must also keep in mind that ISIS does not want the west to take in refugees. The attack in Paris was intended (at least in part) to further isolate Syrian refugees. The think is, ISIS, HATES, HATES, HATES moderate Muslims (that make up the vast majority of Muslims), and kills them all the time. They don’t want them to go to the west and become successful. They want them to stay, and remain powerless slaves to ISIS ideology. > > So for those who want to close our borders to innocent refugees because they are afraid that terrorists might slip in with them… I say: > > Why do you want to do the work of ISIS for them? > And why do you have such little confidence in your fellow Canadian’s ability to do their security jobs? Um, no Sunshine boy has already deferred the original planned importation of migrants, due to concerns from the health minister, regarding TB. As a result of recent events in France, I would expect that we are going to see lower numbers over all, and in a more measured pace, rather than importing five divisions of syrians all at once. Not to put a fine point on it, but the next two weeks are really going to be the crunch point for these people. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/145 "2015-11-15T05:58:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I agree with everything you said, but you’re talking about immigration in general, for which we have high standards. I’ve met quite a few recent immigrants and I’ve been impressed by their work ethic, skills, education, and general character. The problem here is what is essentially a “refugee exemption” where all the normal immigration rules go out the window. This is what concerns me, and it’s no small thing. Uh… what I take from **Muffin** ’s post is that those “high standards” specifically and demonstrably failed to distinguish between the best and the worst of Sikh-Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/146 "2015-11-15T06:12:47Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Uh… what I take from **Muffin** ’s post is that those “high standards” specifically and demonstrably failed to distinguish between the best and the worst of Sikh-Canadians. Right, and we can expect worse standards vetting refugees from a war zone. They are less likely to have all their proper identification papers and war zones are harder to get background info from. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/147 "2015-11-15T13:41:35Z")
The risk of a few bad apples getting through, whatever the process, has always, and will always exist. It has zero to do with the numbers involved. Any thinking person can see that. Should we just stop any refugees coming because we’re afraid? (What are we now, American’s?) Mr Harper did a real fine job of promoting fear, conservatives are all now trembling in their homes. Even though they are as safe today, as they were yesterday. It’s pointless to waste your energy trying to reassure them. A year from now, no attacks? They’ll still claim it was just dumb luck! I say, let them tremble in their homes and scream the sky is falling, while Canada demonstrates the bravery to do what is right, even in an increasingly dangerous world. Canadians, conservatives notwithstanding, do not want to give up their humanity for imagined security. Simply to placate those who’ve bought into fear mongering! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/148 "2015-11-15T17:36:38Z")
Ah, American bashing partisan patriotism always makes me so proud to be Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/149 "2015-11-15T17:43:19Z")
Yes it’s so easy to feel smug and superior. Really helps a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/150 "2015-11-15T21:31:45Z")
Lighten up Francis, it was a damn joke! Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/151 "2015-11-15T22:53:35Z")
It’s a legit statement, given [the positions taken by GOP primary candidates](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/paris-attacks-republicans-immigration-trump-cruz-215895). There’s some serious crazy going on down there. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/152 "2015-11-15T23:17:07Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Lighten up Francis, it was a damn joke! Sheesh! It’s getting old. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/153 "2015-11-16T00:35:43Z")
Seriously? Dozens of references to ‘aboot’, on the board, and I make one crack about knee jerking? And MY crack is ‘getting old’? That’s hilarious! 😃 You’re clearly much better at this than I am! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/154 "2015-11-16T02:59:19Z")
I’ve been hearing American bashing substituting for Canadian patriotism my whole life - before the board ever existed. Yes it’s gotten old. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/155 "2015-11-16T05:49:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’ve been hearing American bashing substituting for Canadian patriotism my whole life - before the board ever existed. Yes it’s gotten old. Canada: The only country where patriotism defines itself by what it’s _not_, rather than what it _is_. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/156 "2015-11-16T05:52:25Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Charlie’s newfound concern with shaming women for their looks is heartening, given: > > [Charlie Wayne compares female politician to mule](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18188292&postcount=1); > > [Charlie Wayne can’t quite get over how ugly Michelle Obama is](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17250417&postcount=251): > > [Charlie Wayne can’t believe Michelle Obama wore the same dress more than once](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=732267&highlight=Dress): > > [And it was an ugly, ugly dress](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112420&postcount=28)! > > [Michelle Obama is an even dumber, uglier ape than her husband](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=719231). > > So, yeah, lard bucket is totally uncalled for but it’s odd that Charlie is doing some of the calling. Whoa. If you think he’s right, why in the world do you feel the need to attack him? What’s the point of bringing up that his position appears to be different in the past other than to discredit his statement now? And it’s not surprising at all. Insulting someone by calling them fat is not a female-only thing. Even if **CW** has some blind spots with women, it doesn’t mean he has the same blind spot with fat people. **wolfpup** revealed with his choice of insult that he has a problem with fat people, the same way calling her ignorant indicates he has a problem with ignorant people. That **Charlie Wayne** called him on it is a good thing, regardless of what he’s said in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/157 "2015-11-16T06:14:55Z")
Times-Colonist: [Comment: It’s time to repent of our Canadian smugness](http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/columnists/comment-it-s-time-to-repent-of-our-canadian-smugness-1.2048553#sthash.UB6QZ1aa.dpuf) Globe and Mail: [When did you get so smug, Canada? Not cool, man](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/when-did-you-get-so-smug-canada-not-cool-man/article4187655/) Montreal Gazette: [Opinion: Canadians have no reason to be smug about U.S. race issues](http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-CA&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=canadian+smugness&gbv=2&oq=canadian+smugness&gs_l=heirloom-hp.3..0.1060.5286.0.5605.21.16.1.3.3.0.272.1624.1j9j1.11.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..6.15.1636.N58ETNE0sSI) [Annoying Canadian nationalism](http://saideman.blogspot.ca/2013/01/annoying-canadian-nationalism.html) And that’s just some of the articles on the first page of a Google search: “Canadian Smugness” And then of course there’s this: [Canadians have a lot to be proud of, ( and a titch smug too!) I think:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=774315) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/158 "2015-11-16T06:37:45Z")
Nicely put, **NP**. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/159 "2015-11-16T07:50:13Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Whoa. If you think he’s right, why in the world do you feel the need to attack him? What’s the point of bringing up that his position appears to be different in the past other than to discredit his statement now? > > And it’s not surprising at all. Insulting someone by calling them fat is not a female-only thing. Even if **CW** has some blind spots with women, it doesn’t mean he has the same blind spot with fat people. > > **wolfpup** revealed with his choice of insult that he has a problem with fat people, the same way calling her ignorant indicates he has a problem with ignorant people. That **Charlie Wayne** called him on it is a good thing, regardless of what he’s said in the past. It has been my unfortunate experience (I hope that I learned - even though it might have been learning the hard way). When someone makes a mistake, the adult thing to do is to admit it. To apologize. And to promise not to do it again. I have found that most people are willing to forgive under those circumstances. My problem with this guy is that instead of doing any of that, he chose to refuse to answer, to evade, to deny, and finally, to try to shift the blame back onto the people who are asking him to explain. IMO, anyone who thinks they can get away with that kind of nonsense is not the sharpest (you can fill in the rest for yourselves). ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709/160 "2015-11-16T07:57:41Z")
NM. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-trudeau-gets-to-work/736709.md?page=9)