# Canada - what makes Canada great **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 11, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181 "2009-11-11T14:39:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/101 "2009-11-13T05:10:56Z")
> [@BMada](#): > > seriously where do these Canadians come from exactly that say “aboot”, I really would like to know and hear it for myself. I explained it above, but no one seems to have noticed, so I’ll requote it: > [@Indistinguishable](#): > > The whole “aboot” thing is an erroneous description of the real phonological phenomenon of [Canadian raising](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_raising) (the use of a more centered initial starting position in the diphthongs “aye” and “ow” when they precede unvoiced consonants as compared to otherwise (compare the vowels in “knife” vs. “knives”, or “out” vs. “loud”); many Americans have the same phenomenon for the first but the not the second of these). If you want to hear examples, try [here](http://www.yorku.ca/twainweb/troberts/raising.html) ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/102 "2009-11-13T05:29:43Z")
I know for a fact that I pronounce “toronto” as traw-na If i was speaking that’ll most likely be my pronunciation of toronto. However if someone were to ask me where I am from it’ll most definitely be Toe-ron-toe, on-tare-ee-oh. The stuff you linked to hear pretty much sounded normal, “about the house” sounds like about the house, not aboot the house. That’s what baffles me. There is no “oo” sound. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/103 "2009-11-13T05:47:15Z")
I know it’s not an “oo” sound. That’s why I labelled “aboot” as an erroneous description of the phenomenon. But the linked pronunciation of “about the house” _is_ an initially-raised diphthong as compared to a typical American pronunciation of the phrase, or even to the same Canadian speakers’ pronunciations of the vowels in “aloud the cows” or “a bow the how” or whatever (as illustrated by the difference in vowel quality between the linked pronunciations of “lout” and “loud”). There is a genuine phonological contrast here. ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/104 "2009-11-13T05:50:54Z")
i guess i need to find links to american pronunciation to have a comparison. Because there is no way for me to hear the difference. Let the pros and cons continue, ignore my little rant on “aboot”. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/105 "2009-11-13T06:04:30Z")
Well, if you yourself are Canadian with full Canadian raising as an accent feature, consider whether there is a vowel quality difference in the pronunciations you would use for, say, “how sad” as opposed to “house ad”. Or whether “rowdy” fails to rhyme exactly with “outie”. If you can notice a slight difference between the qualities of the “ow” vowels in these contrasting cases, _that_’s Canadian raising on “ow”, and that’s what Americans typically don’t do (they use the “how sad”/“rowdy” vowel realization in all cases, even before voiceless consonants), although many Americans _do_ at least share the analogous phenomenon for the vowel “aye”. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/106 "2009-11-13T06:11:57Z")
I would say it is less a tolerance of religious differences than the belief that religion is a private matter. I don’t know the religion of any of the people in my life beyond my immediate family and friends, and I don’t ask. I certainly don’t know the religion of my political leaders, doctors, dentists, bosses, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/107 "2009-11-13T07:25:38Z")
> [@Livardo](#): > > As a Canuck working in the states here’s some things i’ve noticed: Seems like cultures in the states are accepted but not celebrated. There’s a difference. Multiculturalism (a dirty word it seems amongst some conservatives) IMHO is embraced and celebrated in Canada. There are some American cultures that are significantly different from the “norm”; the black and Latino cultures being good examples. It is true that white Americans, while they seem to be attached to their ethnic identifiers, have mostly subsumed their identity into the generic American. This said, while I know this thread is about “what makes Canada great”, I’ll say that I don’t understand in which ways Canadians can be said to embrace or celebrate multiculturalism in a meaningful way. Sure, we all like to have people from many different countries, speaking different languages at home and eating different foods, contributing to our country, but that’s just because it makes us feel open-minded. This acceptance and “celebration” stops when we start feeling not at home anymore in our country, just like it does everywhere else, and I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. > [@](#): > > For instance, we don’t use the Liberal label the same way it’s used in the states. This much is true. I saw quite a few political ads in the last few weeks because of special elections in the US, and one of them was attacking the opposing candidate as “support[ing] Nancy Pelosi’s liberal agenda”. Why should I think this is a bad thing? > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Well, there’s definitely down side to Canada (I like to celebrate multiculturalism, but I consider Canadian to be a valid culture, too, not something to be dismissed), but this thread is about what makes us great. Well, as you yourself said, there is not really any single Canadian identity and culture. But yes, our various identities are valid. > [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I believe Canada is unique in having shows like Air Farce, This Hour has 22 Minutes, the Rick Mercer Report and La Fin du monde est a 7 heures take on the actual politician up to and including the sitting Prime Minister. I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think Bill Clinton, Al Gore or George W. Bush were ever ‘cornered’ at a press conference, conned into giving a ‘celebrity headlock’, going to Harvey’s for a burger, putting into a water glass in the PMO’s office, etc. by any of the American news parody shows. So you mean having comedians “surprise” politicians? Yes, I agree it’s been done here, and for now I can’t think of anything equivalent in the US. A comedian like Stephen Colbert often has politicians on his show, but in his case they’ve agreed to meet him beforehand. I can’t say anything about other countries though. FTR, _La Fin du monde est à sept heures_ was cancelled in 2000, but I note that it featured Jean-René Dufort whose current show, _Infoman_, is famous for doing this very thing you’re describing. > [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Well, if you yourself are Canadian with full Canadian raising as an accent feature, consider whether there is a vowel quality difference in the pronunciations you would use for, say, “how sad” as opposed to “house ad”. Or whether “rowdy” fails to rhyme exactly with “outie”. You know, I don’t believe I differentiate between these vowels. I’d probably need someone to listen to me to confirm though. English isn’t my first language, so it’s entirely possible that I sound American rather than Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/108 "2009-11-13T16:41:13Z")
They say eye . Like organ eye zation. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/109 "2009-11-13T17:30:29Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > That’s exactly how it was explained to me by my (also lovely and talented) spouse, who is also from Newfoundland. This makes you one of the two luckiest men on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Cream\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ice\_Cream\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Cream_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/110 "2009-11-13T17:52:29Z")
Concerning the Canadian “about”, I think it’s definitely something that we do but don’t/can’t notice. I grew up outside of Toronto and when I was in high school I went on a school trip to California. When we were in San Diego we stayed with various families from a school that we had paired up with. My friend and I happened to stay with a Korean family. They had broken and thickly accented English and had never heard any stereotypes concerning Canadian accents. One of the first times I said “about” in a sentence they started laughing. They said I pronounced it oddly. My friend as well. Same thing for “house”, “couch”, “mouse”, etc. My friend and I could not for the life of us figure out how we were saying it any differently than Americans do to but they insisted it sounded like “aboot”. We ended up telling them about the whole “aboot” thing and how Americans often claim that’s how we pronounce things; that it was an established belief. Before that event, I always assumed that the “aboot” stereotype was just a joke and that we didn’t pronounce it any differently. Afterwards, I believe that we do pronounce it differently but just can’t tell the difference for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/111 "2009-11-13T21:21:02Z")
> [@BMada](#): > > The stuff you linked to hear pretty much sounded normal, “about the house” sounds like about the house, not aboot the house. That’s what baffles me. There is no “oo” sound. This feature of Canadian pronunciation is called “Canadian raising.” Nobody actually says “aboot,” this is just the crude approximation of someone for whom the dialect is altogether foreign. What they’re actually on about is the way we tend to “raise” diphthongs slightly when they are followed by unvoiced consonants. This is a pretty subtle thing, and it is (very crudely) approximated by actually replacing the vowel sound with another, higher vowel sound. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/112 "2009-11-13T21:35:17Z")
> [@Ice\_Cream\_Man](#): > > Concerning the Canadian “about”, I think it’s definitely something that we do but don’t/can’t notice. > > I grew up outside of Toronto and when I was in high school I went on a school trip to California. When we were in San Diego we stayed with various families from a school that we had paired up with. My friend and I happened to stay with a Korean family. > > They had broken and thickly accented English and had never heard any stereotypes concerning Canadian accents. One of the first times I said “about” in a sentence they started laughing. They said I pronounced it oddly. My friend as well. Same thing for “house”, “couch”, “mouse”, etc. > > My friend and I could not for the life of us figure out how we were saying it any differently than Americans do to but they insisted it sounded like “aboot”. We ended up telling them about the whole “aboot” thing and how Americans often claim that’s how we pronounce things; that it was an established belief. > > Before that event, I always assumed that the “aboot” stereotype was just a joke and that we didn’t pronounce it any differently. Afterwards, I believe that we do pronounce it differently but just can’t tell the difference for some reason. I had a girlfriend from California (long ago), who found my Canadian pronouciation endlessly amusing. (I found her California accent both amusing and sexy, but that’s another story …). Seemed to me that Californians had a tendancy to elongate or drawl their vowels (not sure if that is the linguistic term or not) - an exaggeration for “about the house”: “abaaaaut the haaaause”; to her, I’d sound almost Scottish: “aboot the hoose”. Again, an exaggeration of the difference, which is really more of a _tendancy_ towards “aboot”-ness if you will than full-on saying “aboot”. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/113 "2009-11-13T23:34:59Z")
I could not “hear” aboot (I’m a Canadian), but my American friends could. After being stumped for a few years, I finally figured out how to recoginize the difference. One day I came across a clip of Nancy Grace on the internet – a one woman perfect storm of ignorance, offensiveness, and the most hideous accent I had ever heard. I figured that if I imitated her accent, I might then be able to hear the difference between it an my usual Canadian accent. Once I was thoroughly used to using her accent, I then tried comparing it to how I usually spoke. That’s when I was first able to hear “aboot”. ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/114 "2009-11-13T23:46:34Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I could not “hear” aboot (I’m a Canadian), but my American friends could. After being stumped for a few years, I finally figured out how to recoginize the difference. One day I came across a clip of Nancy Grace on the internet – a one woman perfect storm of ignorance, offensiveness, and the most hideous accent I had ever heard. I figured that if I imitated her accent, I might then be able to hear the difference between it an my usual Canadian accent. Once I was thoroughly used to using her accent, I then tried comparing it to how I usually spoke. That’s when I was first able to hear “aboot”. nancy grace clip like [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtWNVxnmG\_4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtWNVxnmG_4) ??? that is not “proper” pronunciation to me, that’s southern drawl. There is in no way in hell that her way is the “real” way of pronunciation. That southern drawl of hers is noticeable. ---
**Author:** ![trupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@trupa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trupa)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/115 "2009-11-13T23:49:57Z")
I find it amusingly paradoxical that the OP is asking Canadians what they think is great about our country, when being self-effacing is such a defining element of the Canadian psyche. It’s actually difficult for many of us to say that something about us is “great”. I find there is an element of striving for “good enough” & “pretty good” as opposed to trying to “be the best” in Canadians’ way of thinking. Canadians are not very tolerant of people who are proud of themselves for some achievement, even justifiably (think tall poppy syndrome) . We don’t really appreciate our artists and athletes until they’re successful in another country, as if success at home isn’t really a proof of excellence (except in hockey) We tend to shun risk and love compromise. On other topics in this thread, the greatest feature I appreciate about my country is, actually, the health care system. I’m married to an oncologist, so I get kind of an inside view. Philosophically and politically, I sometimes feel I would be more comfortable in the US. But the health-care keeps me here. Yes there are some access problems, mostly for diagnostic imaging, getting a family doc, and elective procedures. The coming demographic crunch of ageing boomers will be a big problem. But urgent care and grave illness care is available to all in a timely fashion. My wife refused to contemplate practising in a setting where she could not offer the latest treatment to a patient because of financial considerations, so we staid here. As a rare Canadian hand gun owner & recreational shooter, I do feel a bit persecuted, and I hide this part of my life from most acquaintances. I don’t mind the licensing and screening so much, but it’s the constant fear of confiscation every time there’s an election that more fatiguing, along with some of the sillier laws; for example, it’s technically illegal for me to stop at a restaurant and eat a meal on the way back from the range, even if the gun is locked in a metal box and locked in my car trunk. Oops, gotta run, my son is awake. ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/116 "2009-11-13T23:55:44Z")
> [@trupa](#): > > . My wife refused to contemplate practising in a setting where she could not offer the latest treatment to a patient because of financial considerations, so we staid here. If i were a doctor that would be a concern too, don’t all doctors take the Hippocratic Oath? how does that affect american doctors? beats me, im not a doctor nor do i know the oath by heart. Seems like a conflict of interests to me, the american health care system that is. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/117 "2009-11-14T00:01:28Z")
I’m not Canadian and haven’t read the whole thread, but I can tell you that a drive through British Columbia and into the Yukon Territory on the Alaska Highway has no equal in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/118 "2009-11-14T00:05:44Z")
**trupa** , I’m currently reading a book on the narcissism epidemic in the world, and it is much worse in the US than it is in Canada for just the reasons you have stated; we are happy with compromise and being good enough. You could make an excellent argument that the worldwide global collapse can be laid at the feet of American narcissism (you can also argue that the American reluctance to take the blame for it can also be traced back to that same cause). ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/119 "2009-11-14T00:08:36Z")
> [@trupa](#): > > As a rare Canadian hand gun owner & recreational shooter, I do feel a bit persecuted, and I hide this part of my life from most acquaintances. I don’t mind the licensing and screening so much, but it’s the constant fear of confiscation every time there’s an election that more fatiguing, along with some of the sillier laws; for example, it’s technically illegal for me to stop at a restaurant and eat a meal on the way back from the range, even if the gun is locked in a metal box and locked in my car trunk. An even stranger aspect of our gun control laws is that all of these rules and regulations apply to replicas as well as real guns. Many of my friends who work in theatre and film (some of whom are about as leftist as you can get) have also had to go through the screening and registration process in order to be allowed to carve bits of two by four to look like handguns! And I remember being trained for a production in Banff in '95 where the gun wrangler just shrugged - he had long ago learned that he was best off to have someone drive with him from Calgary to Banff in a separate van, because he never knew from one visit to the next what all he would be allowed to take into the National Park. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181/120 "2009-11-14T00:10:05Z")
> [@BMada](#): > > nancy grace clip like [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtWNVxnmG\_4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtWNVxnmG_4) ??? > > that is not “proper” pronunciation to me, that’s southern drawl. There is in no way in hell that her way is the “real” way of pronunciation. That southern drawl of hers is noticeable. But that’s just the point. Her extreme accent was so different from my accent that I could actually tell the difference, whereas the difference between my accent and that of someone just a few miles away across the border is so subtle that I was unable to hear the difference. Having finally figured it out with the help of extremely different accents, I can now hear the difference locally despite the difference not being so big. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-what-makes-canada-great/517181.md?page=7)