# Canadian 'dopers, Freedom Convoy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 10, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186 "2022-02-10T00:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/361 "2022-02-17T18:42:51Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > This might turn into a situation in which obvious, visible protesters might not want to walk anywhere by themselves. Yeah, I’m kind of feeling this myself. I was out doing some errands at lunch today, and I drive a red F-150. I made a point of wearing my mask whenever I stopped anywhere, even doing curbside pick-up. I saw one person with flags on their car, and had to think, “Convoyers, or celebrating Canada’s hockey gold medal from last night?” When I stopped at the gas station to pick up some rock salt for my driveway, there was guy with a big rig cab fueling up. No visible flags, but I was wondering - I’ve never seen a big truck like that at a local gas station, and this location had pretty good highway access for getting downtown. So, personally, I’m definitely more paranoid than normal. At least I recognize it, though. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/362 "2022-02-17T18:47:08Z")
I’m picturing roving gangs of angry Glebe hipster elites 😀 Notwithstanding the facetiousness, things could get ugly and nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/363 "2022-02-17T18:50:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Oh it’s doubtless way harder now, but I strongly believe regular law enforcement MUST be tried before engaging the Act. You cannot just have the government saying “Well, this seems like it might be hard, let’s go around the usual law.” The problem is, we had regular law enforcement just standing around doing nothing, _for weeks._ And sometimes _less than nothing_. There are documented instances of the Ottawa police and OPP actively helping convoyers, and openly sympathizing with their cause. A lot of people in Ottawa have seen this as a tacit declaration that the cops are complicit in this, and are only too happy to let the wolves run wild. The utter failure of the police in Ottawa, and the complete loss of trust that failure has led to, demands some kind of response from higher authority. You might not think it’s so bad as that, but here in Ottawa, we’re on the verge of a collapse of civil society. Our police are useless, our city government is entirely dysfunctional, and the citizenry are actively starting to plan vigilante actions to protect themselves. And _none_ of that is hyperbole. This is the worst crisis in Canada that I’ve ever seen, **and I’ve just lived through two years of a global pandemic.** ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/364 "2022-02-17T18:51:26Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Also, apparently residents and businesses in downtown Ottawa have filed a $306 million lawsuit against many of the protesters. They have info from 400 license plates. You mean they might suffer consequences for their actions? Why, how can this be? When young people go and lie down in front of logging trucks or when indigenous people block a remote road protesting a pipeline going through their unceded territory, they **fully expect** that there will be consequences, including possible jail time. It’s my feeling that these Ottawa blockade yahoos, coming as they do from a position of privilege, are just blissfully unaware that they will suffer any consequences whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/365 "2022-02-17T18:52:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I strongly believe regular law enforcement MUST be tried before engaging the Act. You cannot just have the government saying “Well, this seems like it might be hard, let’s go around the usual law.” I agree. And I think this is why Trudeau had to finally put this on the table; Because Ottawa police were doing fuck-all. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/366 "2022-02-17T18:55:47Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It’s my feeling that these Ottawa blockade yahoos, coming as they do from a position of privilege, are just blissfully unaware that they will suffer any consequences whatsoever. Yeah, this. You see it in the few times the police have pushed back against any of them. Screaming about “I didn’t do anything! If you touch me that’s assault! I’m going to sue you! That diesel fuel is my property! You’re stealing from me!” They’re the whole country’s worth of those maskholes we’ve seen throwing tantrums in grocery stores, all in one place. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/367 "2022-02-17T18:55:48Z")
Additionally, it may be beyond “hard” for the following reasons: - hostages/human shields (no, they’re not cute kiddies in bouncy castles - that’s a red herring) - possible weapons in both sites (Wellington and Coventry) - though I know nothing about trucks, from what I’ve read they’ve been airbraked which apparently renders them very difficult to tow - there are hard-core folks who have had weeks to prepare with no effort to prevent the import of anything ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/368 "2022-02-17T18:58:12Z")
Yes, spectacular levels of entitlement and obliviousness, and mess-deck lawyer BS. I’ve seen some of them, on TV, actually saying things like “this is an over-reaction for just some street hockey and bouncy castles” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/369 "2022-02-17T19:00:22Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The problem is, we had regular law enforcement just standing around doing nothing, _for weeks._ Then the problem is with the municipal and provincial government, not a systemic inability to do something. Do you really want to encourage cities not solving law enforcement problems because they figure the feds will do it for them? If the Ottawa police have failed, and they have, the next step is for the province to impose its will upon them. The legal remedies for that exist and should be attempted. I don’t at all mind Ottawa’s city government having powers stripped of it by Queens Park. Cities are not a sovereign authority, and it’s clear Ottawa’s city government is in a state of complete organizational shock. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/370 "2022-02-17T19:15:08Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > though I know nothing about trucks, from what I’ve read they’ve been airbraked which apparently renders them very difficult to tow This is another red herring. For one, it’s the people in the trucks that are the real problem. They’re the ones honking horns all night to keep everyone else awake, they’re the ones harassing local people in their own homes and while they’re out going to work or shopping. Pretty much everyone in Ottawa agrees - get rid of the people, and we don’t mind if it takes weeks to get rid of the trucks. Without the people, the trucks are a large, but also largely trivial, problem that we know how to fix. The streets they’re blocking are nice, but not actually critical. Locals can walk to most of what they need, and those from the suburbs can figure out how to avoid the blocked streets. We do that all the time for other protests, events, snowstorms, and traffic jams. Secondly, they’re only “hard to tow” if you’re trying to avoid damage to the trucks. If, for some reason, we need to move the trucks quickly, I don’t think anyone but the truckers is going to care a whit about damaging them. > [@RickJay](#): > > If the Ottawa police have failed, and they have, the next step is for the province to impose its will upon them. Except “the Province” is “Doug Ford”, who has also ignored the city of Ottawa this entire time. He’d apparently rather try to score political points on Trudeau than help the citizens of his province. I agree that the Feds should be the last resort, but I think we’re at the last resort stage - every earlier stage has failed, for one reason or another. I’ll be quite happy to see them all burn one this mess is fixed, but we’ve got to fix the mess first. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/371 "2022-02-17T19:18:09Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > This is another red herring. > > For one, it’s the people in the trucks that are the real problem. They’re the ones honking horns all night to keep everyone else awake, they’re the ones harassing local people in their own homes and while they’re out going to work or shopping. Pretty much everyone in Ottawa agrees - get rid of the people, and we don’t mind if it takes weeks to get rid of the trucks. Without the people, the trucks are a large, but also largely trivial, problem that we know how to fix. The streets they’re blocking are nice, but not actually critical. Locals can walk to most of what they need, and those from the suburbs can figure out how to avoid the blocked streets. We do that all the time for other protests, events, snowstorms, and traffic jams. > > Secondly, they’re only “hard to tow” if you’re trying to avoid damage to the trucks. If, for some reason, we need to move the trucks quickly, I don’t think anyone but the truckers is going to care a whit about damaging them. Fully agree. My point about the trucks being harder to tow means that different measures/rules of engagement might be required. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/372 "2022-02-17T19:33:30Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Fully agree. My point about the trucks being harder to tow means that different measures/rules of engagement might be required. As was said earlier (or in another thread), wrap some chains around them and use snowmoving equipment to drag them off to a parking lot with rubber burning and sparks flying. Does not matter what damage is done to the trucks by this method. They are not trucks anymore - they are illegal barricades that need to be removed. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/373 "2022-02-17T19:36:07Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > wrap some chains around them and use snowmoving equipment to drag them off to a parking lot with rubber burning and sparks flying. or even cut them up on site and then remove them ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/374 "2022-02-17T19:45:18Z")
Just cogitating on speakerphone, here, but … Salient fact: > The unladen weight of a semi-tractor can vary between 10,000 and 25,000 pounds, depending on how powerful the engine is, how much it’s designed to tow, and whether or not it’s a sleeper cab. An unladen 53-foot trailer weighs about 10,000 pounds, accounting for a **total unladen weight** of about 35,000 pounds. [**SOURCE**](https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/how-much-does-a-semi-truck-weigh) Proposed plan: > [@](#): > > Heavy duty helicopters are used and designed for the purposes of carrying large loads that are unmanageable by the other helicopters in the world today. Given the specific form, fit, and function of a heavy duty helicopter, there are naturally a smaller selection of such aircraft. Examples include of course the CH-47 Chinook, CH-46 Sea Knight, Boeing Vertol 107, Boeing Vertol 234, S-64 Sky Crane, Sikorsky CH-53 Stallion, Sikorsky UH-60 Blackhawk, Sikorsky S61 helicopter, Eurocopter SA330 Puma, and the Boeing V-22 Osprey. > > **Heavy duty helicopters can lift between approximately 6,000 and 36,000 pounds** , with the Sikorsky CH-53 Super Stallion leading the way. [**SOURCE**](https://billingsflyingservice.com/ultimate-heavy-lift-helicopter/) I mean … you don’t have to drag these trucks to the Maritime Provinces – just to a private airport somewhere just outside of town. A couple of stealthy riggers on the ground, and … Only somewhat tongue-in-cheek. “Hey ! I can see Russia from the cab of my **truck !** ” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/375 "2022-02-17T19:48:30Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > or even cut them up on site and then remove them If we’re using snowmoving equipment, I want the front-end loader we use to dump snowbanks into the dump trucks. Because I’m pretty sure they could tip one of these big rigs on their side. And I think it would be a grand treat for the people of Ottawa to see these guys freaking out as, one by one, every truck in the convoy is tipped on its side. Hell, the citizens would probably be willing to just leave them there for a few months afterwards, “[pour encourager les autres](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pour%20encourager%20les%20autres).” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/376 "2022-02-17T19:53:15Z")
Oh, hell, I just remembered: _The Canadian War Museum in Ottawa has functional tanks._ I’ve seen them driving with my own eyes. [And it’s right there](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Canadian+War+Museum,+1+Vimy+Pl,+Ottawa,+ON+K1A+0M8/''/@45.4182542,-75.7164319,15z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!1m1!1s0x4cce045b6f58df63:0xa1c3c19f9ae53ddc!2m2!1d-75.7169418!2d45.4171032!3m4!1m2!1d-75.7118189!2d45.4187171!3s0x4cce045a1439cee7:0xba972f4c2ee22f78!1m5!1m1!1s0x0:0x26bb54f60c29f6e!2m2!1d-75.700929!2d45.4235937!3e0). ETA: Proof! > **[Tanks 'on patrol' behind Canadian War Museum](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/tanks-on-patrol-behind-canadian-war-museum)** > > The big-boy toys were brought out for test runs behind the Canadian War Museum on Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/377 "2022-02-17T19:59:20Z")
If we take all the suggestions together: 1. Tip the trucks over 2. Run over them with a tank 3. Drag/scrape them to a parking lot 4. Leave them there as an art installation warning to others ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/378 "2022-02-17T20:01:59Z")
They should just bring in a heavy excavator with hydraulic shears. But realistically, if they were to go scorched-earth on the convoy, there would be people chaining themselves and their kids to the trucks, rendering such a scenario unworkable. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/379 "2022-02-17T20:07:11Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If we take all the suggestions together: > > 1. Tip the trucks over > 2. Run over them with a tank > 3. Drag/scrape them to a parking lot > 4. Leave them there as an art installation warning to others I like the way you think! ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/380 "2022-02-17T20:19:32Z")
Thats why god invented bolt cutters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186.md?page=20)