# Canadian 'dopers, Freedom Convoy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 10, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186 "2022-02-10T00:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/581 "2022-02-22T23:16:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No, temporary layoffs - which have ended, or are ending now - are not a national security emergency. The layoffs are ending now BECAUSE the emergency act allowed the prompt clearing of the blockades. Your logic is the same as someone saying that preparations for the Y2K bug were a waste of time, because nothing actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/582 "2022-02-22T23:18:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The layoffs are ending now BECAUSE the emergency act allowed the prompt clearing of the blockades. No, they did not. The Windsor blockade, which is what caused auto plant layoffs, was cleared on February 12 and 13; the Act was invoked on February 14. The clearing of the blockade was done entirely with existing laws. Can you explain why the Act is needed now? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/583 "2022-02-22T23:22:01Z")
Where are the trucks located now? Have they all gone home? (narrator: no, they have not) Have the blockaders said that they’re done now, they’ve made their point? (narrator: no, they have not) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/584 "2022-02-22T23:23:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Where are the trucks located now? Have they all gone home? Ah, the “they might come back” story. Which is, of course, always theoretically possible. Well, okay, you must have evidence of an imminent threat. Can we see it? Why is the Act required to deal with it? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/585 "2022-02-22T23:26:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, okay, you must have evidence of an imminent threat. Can we see it? Why is the Act required to deal with it? Sadly, I am not in possession of materials that the RCMP or intelligence services likely have. But I defer to your wisdom that it’s all over now, and there is nothing to worry about, so we can all just look the other way. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/586 "2022-02-22T23:27:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sadly, I am not in possession of materials that the RCMP or intelligence services likely have. Do you want a Conservative government (I will not even raise the frightening possibility of a PCC government) to have the power to invoke the Act without apparent evidence for its necessity? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/587 "2022-02-22T23:27:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If it was a legal formality, why hasn’t it been lifted? The Parliamentary vote was the legal requirement. Whether the vote supported Trudeau’s decision was a political minefield that could have brought down the government if it had gone the other way – an argument that I can see you and your political allies making. So that’s one reason I already gave you why Parliament – not Trudeau – voted to support and maintain the Emergencies Act declaration. Another reason is the same reason that Tamara Lich was denied bail, the same reason that caused concern when a large truck staging area was found on a farm outside Ottawa, the same reason that investigations are continuing, arrests are still being made, and bank accounts still being frozen: the convoys and protestors may be mostly gone for now, but the danger is not yet over. > [@RickJay](#): > > Do you want a Conservative government (I will not even raise the frightening possibility of a PCC government) to have the power to invoke the Act without apparent evidence for its necessity? I don’t want _ **any** _ government to take such action without clear necessity. I believe, as do most Canadians, that the necessity was pretty clear. I had no problem with the Conservative government of Ontario declaring a state of emergency, and vowing to use any and all means to throw the book at the protestors. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/588 "2022-02-22T23:28:29Z")
I’m sure it’s all good now. After all, ignoring them when they first parked in Ottawa was a good strategy. Just pretend they are not there and they’ll get bored and leave. Right? Right And don’t worry about the millions of dollars currently frozen. Why I’m sure that will all be donated to good causes like “Puppies for Orphans” or some such. We really just have to trust those good people who organized the whole shit-show. They have our interests at heart. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/589 "2022-02-22T23:30:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Do you want a Conservative government (I will not even raise the frightening possibility of a PCC government) to have the power to invoke the Act without apparent evidence for its necessity? You know what? I don’t think they would. I don’t have an automatic instinctive hatred of “the other team”. I think any party would take into consideration of what is best for all Canadians, not just a tiny minority of whack-a-doodles who tried to take the country hostage. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/590 "2022-02-22T23:30:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > – an argument that I can see you and your political allies making. Sorry, but who are my political allies? > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m sure it’s all good now. After all, ignoring them when they first parked in Ottawa was a good strategy. Just pretend they are not there and they’ll get bored and leave. Well, no, that was a really terrible strategy. They should have used the existing laws to evict them, as they did in Windsor, and could also do now. Could you explain why the Emergencies Act is needed? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/591 "2022-02-22T23:33:10Z")
Ok so you think it was inappropriately used. What should the consequences be? Trudeau resigns? Fines? Jail time? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/592 "2022-02-22T23:34:16Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Ok so you think it was inappropriately used. What should the consequences be? I hope the lawsuits against it are successful. Governments are not fined or sent to jail for passing laws that are struck down in the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/593 "2022-02-22T23:38:26Z")
Such an egregious abuse of power should certainly be punished by more than a lawsuit. If there are no real consequences for the Trudeau government then it will surely happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/594 "2022-02-22T23:39:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Could you explain why the Emergencies Act is needed? The existing laws were not being used. The province was doing nothing. The city of Ottawa was doing nothing. Things were spreading to the border crossings. The discovery of an arsenal of guns and several people conspiring to kill police was probably a factor. Once it was announced that the act was being considered, these border blockages got cleared pretty quickly. While things are still “Hot” at the moment, any sign of weakness would mean that the border blockades are back up. They tried again this weekend in BC. A large number of trucks and blockaders is still located near Ottawa. They have not gone home. They are still a problem. If millions of dollars is unfrozen, it will be used to support them and encourage them (and others) to pull this same shit all over again. To sum up: Existing laws were not being used. The Conservatives in the province of Ontario were doing little. The city of Ottawa was doing nothing. Someone had to step in, and the Emergencies Act was the quickest way for the Federal government to accomplish this. Parliament has now voted. They voted in favour of the Emergencies Act. We get that you don’t like this. That’s a shame. I suggest you don’t vote for the Liberal Party in the next federal election. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/595 "2022-02-22T23:42:08Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Such an egregious abuse of power should certainly be punished by more than a lawsuit. If there are no real consequences for the Trudeau government then it will surely happen again. Sure. And the FLQ were really pissed at Trudeau Sr. too. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/596 "2022-02-22T23:48:05Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The existing laws were not being used. The province was doing nothing. The city of Ottawa was doing nothing. Things were spreading to the border crossings. Yes, this. The emergency wasn’t just the jackasses laying siege to Parliament, it was also the complete failure of the city and provincial governments and police forces to act. There were a whole lot of people in Ottawa, at least, who were convinced that this inaction was deliberate on the part of the government and police, and after two full weeks of this shit, _that wasn’t even an unreasonable concern_. This was a failure of civil society unprecedented in my lifetime. That was the real emergency. Here’s a question for those who don’t think this was a real enough emergency: How long should this have been allowed to continue before it became reasonable to suppose that a significant part of our provincial and city governments and police forces were complicit in laying siege to Ottawa, and the Federal government? Because that’s what it looked like from on the ground. If subsequent investigations, or publications of information already known by the Feds shows that some such people _were_ complicit, will you change your tune? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/597 "2022-02-22T23:49:18Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Such an egregious abuse of power should certainly be punished by more than a lawsuit. If there are no real consequences for the Trudeau government then it will surely happen again. This is how a civilized country works; laws are reviewed by the courts. Every government loses come court cases (unless it’s a government that only lasts a few months, I guess, like John Turner’s; maybe it didn’t lose any.) You can’t fine or send Prime Ministers to prison for their governments losing court battles or you’d never have any Prime Ministers. Or you would but they’d never pass a law. The remedy is the courts, and ultimately the next election. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The existing laws were not being used. The province was doing nothing. The city of Ottawa was doing nothing. Things were spreading to the border crossings. Again, the border crossing at the Ambassador bridge was cleared before the act was invoked. As to Ottawa, if the standard for invoking the act is now that a police chief WAS a boob but we have to keep the act in force now even though he’s gone, well, I guess we’ll be seeing a lot of it. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > A large number of trucks and blockaders is still located near Ottawa. They have not gone home. I keep hearing this claim and seeing no evidence of it (you’d think SOMEONE would be all over that) or an explanation as to, if it’s true, why the Emergencies Act is needed to deal with this alleged threat. I heard of two groups BEFORE Ottawa was cleared, one basically in Ottawa and one out east quite a ways, albeit not with anywhere near the number of vehicles as were in Ottawa. By the way, could you clarify if Western separatism should be illegal? You implied that earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/598 "2022-02-22T23:50:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > By the way, could you clarify if Western separatism should be illegal? You implied that earlier. Collecting funds for the purpose of supporting a protest, and funnelling them to a political party should be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/599 "2022-02-22T23:51:13Z")
I’m pretty sure it already is. Don’t need the Emergencies Act for that. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/600 "2022-02-22T23:53:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I keep hearing this claim and seeing no evidence of it (you’d think SOMEONE would be all over that) or an explanation as to, if it’s true, why the Emergencies Act is needed to deal with this alleged threat. It’s not [that hard to find by googling](https://twitter.com/_llebrun/status/1495981820239826953). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186.md?page=31)