# Canadian 'dopers, Freedom Convoy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 10, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186 "2022-02-10T00:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/801 "2022-07-07T01:47:56Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > So I found this editorial confusing. I found it intentionally misleading and a pile of steaming bullshit. tomato, tomahto. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/802 "2022-07-07T01:50:06Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Which of course the prime minister and the federal gov’t could not do, since policing and prosecutions are a municipal / provincial matter. But but but… I’ve been told that Trudeau is a devious dictator, who has seized all powers, and does whatever he wants! Or a dundering doofus, who cannot do anything at all. Depends on the time of day, and the whims of the typical commentator on the newspaper website I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/803 "2022-07-07T02:24:30Z")
Any read on this interim police chief, Steve Bell? No idea what he’s about - hope he’s under an absolute maginifying glass going forward on this. A couple months back the Stupidest of Us were influencing idiots in other countries to do the same, and so I’d like to see this Ottawa buffoonery go the way of Bobby Sherman really quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/804 "2022-07-07T02:39:04Z")
1. Reporters should use the phrases “donnybrook” and “bouncy castles” much more. I hardly ever see this. It is a shame, kinda. 2. What would J.C. have done? Jean Chretien, Canada’s most popular recent PM (supposedly), would have used the phrase “p’tit gars” and given them all Shawnigan handshakes. Then read them the Riot Act. Then threatened anyone still there with blocking the streets. I hear that the dark is afraid of J.C.! He makes onions cry. No one is scared of cutely themed socks… ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/805 "2022-07-07T03:08:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > But but but… I’ve been told that Trudeau is a devious dictator, who has seized all powers, and does whatever he wants! Or a dundering doofus, who cannot do anything at all. Depends on the time of day, and the whims of the typical commentator on the newspaper website I suppose. Or even worse, a…a…a **drama teacher.** ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/806 "2022-07-07T03:42:19Z")
If only we had … a **comedian**! Like Ukraine! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/807 "2022-07-07T03:50:23Z")
Asides. 1. The episode of “Servant of the People” showed on Vision tonight was hysterically funny. How similar are Ukrainian and Russian? I was surprised that I could understand a few simple phrases. 2. Patrick Watson died. I enjoyed his _The Struggle for Democracy_ when it aired on CBC decades ago. Somewhat sad, but not going to start another thread over it (but feel free). ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/808 "2022-07-09T00:57:36Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/66gY7SpfBv4/maxresdefault.jpg "Leader Of Trucker Convoy Arrested Protesting Things That Don't Exist") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66gY7SpfBv4) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/809 "2022-07-09T01:22:32Z")
I was rereading a profile of Poilievre in a recent _Macleans_ (April 2022) asking “why he was always so angry”. He isn’t. It is a populist act, as he supposedly he can be thoughtful and charming in private. He claims to want freedom for Canadians, namely: - The freedom to build a business without obstruction - The freedom to keep the fruits of ones’ labour - Freedom to make health and vaccine choices - Freedom to speak without fear - Freedom to pass on your values - Freedom to worship in your own way He supports anyone fighting peacefully for their rights and freedoms He stands with the truckers but says engaging in violence, vandalism or obstruction is wrong and should be punished. His views have been essentially stable throughout his political career. Not sure about the public persona. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/810 "2022-07-09T22:13:12Z")
It might be worth restating vaccines for Covid probably saved 20,000,000 lives. Far from perfect, it seems things would have been 2.7 times worse without them. I don’t think forcing people to take vaccines was the right move. Coercion has its costs. Getting vaccination rates up to 40% in all countries, or the oldest 5% in Africa would also have had enormous benefits. > **[Covid-19 vaccines saved an estimated 20m lives during their first year](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/07/07/covid-19-vaccines-saved-an-estimated-20m-lives-during-their-first-year)** > > Their impact in poor countries depends on how effectively governments prioritised recipients ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/811 "2022-07-10T19:47:14Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > A couple months back the Stupidest of Us were influencing idiots in other countries to do the same, A couple of months ago? As we speak, farmers in the Netherlands are blocking border crossings, fishermen are blocking ports, and the whole country is in turmoil. There are farmers mobilizing in Germany and Italy. In fact, massive protests are breaking out in a number of European countries. This isn’t just about vaccines now. It’s about insane climate/enviro policy that is going to destroy a big percentage of the world’s food supply and lead to mass starvation if we aren’t careful. And insane energy policy that has given Putin the power to make large chunks of Europe freeze in the dark if they don’t kowtow to him. it’s also providing him with enough funds to pursue the war indefinitely. The Netherlands, for example, is the second largest food exporter in the world after the U.S. We are in a global food/supply chain crisis and yet the government there wants to cut nitrogen fertilizer use by 30-90%, depending on the farming region. The government also wants a massive culling of cattle because they are bad for greenhouse gases. That will essentially cut crop yields by at least 30%, and put a large number of farms out of business, Trudeau wants to do something similar in Canada. Sri Lanka already tried to ban nitrogen fertilizers, and it destroyed their agriculture industry and the government there fell two days ago to massive riots. Inflation due to wild deficit spending and terrible energy policy is also firing up the European protests. Canada may have provided an example of what private people with large machinery can do, but similar protests in Europe are for different reasons and are not going away until we stop the madness. In the meantime, Germany just announced it is closing its final three nuclear plants anyway, and replacing them with coal fired plants (well, replacing 1/4 of their lost capacity) - this while panicking over the risk of Putin cutting off the natural gas they rely on. And so while the Netherlands is destroying its agriculture for global warming, its neighbor is going the other direction and increasingly relying on natural gas and coal. And in the U.S, Washington state is planning to shut down 8 perfectly green hydro dams because of a lawsuit saying they negatively impact salmon populations. They have no plans to replace the energy, and are possibly the worst state for solar power. The world is going mad. The truckers are just a symptom. It’s happening everywhere. If we aren’t careful, we’re going to wind up killing a billion people. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/812 "2022-07-10T19:52:37Z")
Some of these claims seem surprising. I would be grateful for cites confirming them. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/813 "2022-07-10T20:13:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It’s about insane climate/enviro policy that is going to destroy a big percentage of the world’s food supply and lead to mass starvation if we aren’t careful. You mean the policy that we should ignore human impact on climate change, and not massively reduce what we’ve been doing to contribute to it? Yup, that policy would be very likely to lead to destroying a large percentage of the world’s food supply and lead to mass starvation. – what do I mean, “would be”? Portions of it are happening right now; though we haven’t hit the “mass starvation” part yet. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/814 "2022-07-10T20:26:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Some of these claims seem surprising. I would be grateful for cites confirming them. Fine. Amsterdam protests: > **[Farmers ‘freedom convoy’ takes aim at strict Dutch net zero regulations](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/07/09/farmers-freedom-convoy-takes-aim-strict-dutch-net-zero-regulations/)** > > Workers have taken to their tractors in protest at the Netherlands unveiling tough green laws – and they’ve won support from a famous fan German farmers aiding the Netherlands farmers: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOh1wuRUtrQ) > **[Hundreds of tractors block the German/Netherlands border](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1634054/EU-news-farmers-protest-the-netherlands-mark-rutte)** > > FARMERS in the Netherlands have staged a huge protest with thousands of tractors lining up to block the German/Netherlands border in campaign against the government's controversial nitrogen policy. Protests/government falling in Sri Lanka: > **[Sri Lanka: Protesters 'will occupy palace until leaders go'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62111900)** > > Sri Lankan President Gotabaya Rajapaksa promised to resign in a few days, but protesters are sceptical. Protests in Albania: > **[Albania Opposition Urges Protesters to Topple ‘Illegitimate’ PM](https://balkaninsight.com/2019/04/12/albania-opposition-wows-to-take-down-government-in-a-major-protest/)** > > Albanian opposition parties hope a major protest in the capital this Saturday will force the government of Edi Rama from office. Germany closing down the rest of its nuclear plants: [https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/germany-rules-out-prolonging-its-nuclear-power-plants/](https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/germany-rules-out-prolonging-its-nuclear-power-plants/) Washington closing dams: > **[Washington Dam Removal Would Cost Billions to Replace Related Services,...](https://www.enr.com/articles/54284-washington-dam-removal-would-cost-billions-to-replace-related-services-report-says)** > > Four Snake River dams produce energy, enable commodity barging and provide reservoirs for irrigation. You may note a shortage of major North American media sources here. This news is being seriously under-reported by the mainstream media in the US and Canada. If Putin cuts off the gas this winter as he is threatening to, or the war makes it impossible to deliver the gas promised, there will be massive repercussions and mass casualty events as a result. We are governed by fools. The biggest fools appear to currently rule in the Netherlands and Canada, and of course the _former_ leader of Sri Lanka. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/815 "2022-07-10T20:38:53Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Washington closing dams: > > [Washington Dam Removal Would Cost Billions to Replace Related Services, Report Says | Engineering News-Record](https://www.enr.com/articles/54284-washington-dam-removal-would-cost-billions-to-replace-related-services-report-says) > > You may note a shortage of major North American media sources here. This news is being seriously under-reported by the mainstream media in the US and Canada. I sometimes like to “sample” claims to get a sense of whether or not I should take them seriously. This one is definitely in the “Not” category. Did you even _read_ this article? To sum up: 1. This is merely a proposal 2. Similar to earlier proposals that apparently went nowhere 3. Where they explicitly acknowledge the problems of replacing the lost power generating capacity 4. And address many of the other changes that would be needed, like transportation needs 5. And there’s already considerable opposition to this both in the public at large and the political sphere. So, not so much to panic about there. They’re not just going to blow up the dam and go, “Salmon goes BRRRRR LOL!” as the fish jump up the rapids. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/816 "2022-07-10T21:16:06Z")
EU farm policy often makes little sense. I agree global climate priorities can sometimes be very optimistic and there are many examples of short-sighted policy. As you know, it is a complex issue not easily summarized in a few articles although I thank you for providing them. The Netherlands has done wonders to reclaim land and export a lot of food. However, I’m not sure they are the second highest. Given their modest area and smallish population, it is still impressive, however. > **[Which Countries Export the Most Food?](https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-american-food-giant-the-largest-exporter-of-food-in-the-world.html)** > > The United States is the largest exporter of food products worldwide, sending massive amounts of plant and animal products around the world. I can’t recall the Canadian convoy protesting food and energy policy specifically. I do remember concerns with vaccine mandate, improper suggestions regarding the PM and a skewed view of Canadian law and sovereignty. Does Trudeau really want to cut yields so much? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/817 "2022-07-10T21:44:18Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > The Netherlands has done wonders to reclaim land and export a lot of food. However, I’m not sure they are the second highest. Given their modest area and smallish population, it is still impressive, however. The wonders they have achieved are largely the result of nitrogen fertilizer use. From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > The Dutch agricultural sector is highly mechanised, and has a strong focus on international exports. It employs about 4% of the Dutch labour force but produces large surpluses in the food-processing industry and accounts for 21% of the Dutch total export value.[[176]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands#cite_note-184) **The Dutch rank first in the European Union and second worldwide in value of agricultural exports, behind only the United States,** Bolding mine. > **[Netherlands | Agriculture and natural resources](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands#Agriculture_and_natural_resources)** > > The Netherlands' biocapacity totals only 0.8 global hectares per person in 2016, 0.2 of which are dedicated to agriculture. The Dutch biocapacity per person is just about half of the 1.6 global hectares of biocapacity per person available worldwide. In contrast, in 2016, the Dutch used on average 4.8 global hectares of biocapacity - their ecological footprint of consumption. As a result, the Netherlands was running a biocapacity deficit of 4.0 global hectares per person in 2016. Th The Dutch agri... > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I can’t recall the Canadian convoy protesting food and energy policy specifically. I do remember concerns with vaccine mandate, improper suggestions regarding the PM and a skewed view of Canadian law and sovereignty. Does Trudeau really want to cut yields so much? This issue hadn’t really surfaced at the time of the trucker protests, which were about vaccine mandates. But it’s now rising as an issue here, due to the Netherlands shining a light on it. These policies are pushed by the WEF, and Trudeau, Chrystia Freeland and the Netherlands PM are WEF leaders. From here: > **[Government seeks guidance on path towards reducing emissions associated with...](https://www.canada.ca/en/agriculture-agri-food/news/2022/03/government-seeks-guidance-on-path-towards-reducing-emissions-associated-with-fertilizer.html)** > > Canadian farmers have shown that they are good stewards of the land and have long cared for the environment. They are key players in building a healthy environment and a more sustainable agriculture sector in Canada. > [@](#): > > These consultations will focus on how we can achieve Canada’s national target to reduce absolute greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions associated with fertilizers by 30% below 2020 levels by 2030. That’s the same policy they just implemented in the Netherlands and earlier in Sri Lanka. That will reduce crop yields by 20-30% by 2030. Politically, this could trigger a much-inflamed separatist movement i the west. Estimates show that this policy woild reduce agriculture exports in western Canada dramatically, after we already took it on the chin in the oil patch. But more importantly, if the western nations all do this we will starve a lot of people in the world. Madness. At this rate, we will do far more economic and human damage trying to stop climate change than climate change itself will cause. > **[Does Ottawa want a food shortage? Federal government wants to cut nitrogen...](https://farmersforum.com/trudeau-libs-ok-with-voluntary-fertilizer-cuts-conservative-ag-critic-doesnt-believe-it/)** > > Nelson Zandbergen Farmers Forum OTTAWA — The federal government has proposed cutting farm nitrogen fertilizer usage 30 per cent by 2030 but says reductions on farmland will be voluntary. That’s raisin > **[Mandated cuts in fertilizer use could be costly for Canada, report warns -...](https://www.agcanada.com/daily/mandated-cuts-in-fertilizer-use-could-be-costly-for-canada-report-warns)** > > Straight-up cuts in fertilizer rates — if imposed to help Canada meet its targets for cuts in emissions by the end of this decade — could translate to significantly reduced income for farmers, an industry group warns. Fertilizer Canada, the group... Here’s the gamut of Liberal ‘green’ plans, straight from the horse’s mouth: > **[Natural Climate Solutions | Liberal Party of Canada](https://liberal.ca/our-platform/natural-climate-solutions/)** > > Resilient and protected nature is essential for fighting climate change. Nature offers a two-fold benefit, capturing and storing carbon from the atmosphere and protecting communities from climate change’s impact by acting as a buffer to flooding and... Some of those may be good ideas, but there is an awful lot in there that would be immensely destructive if they try to do it. For a long time I thought “They must be saying some of this just to placate their base, because no one would be stupid enough to actually try to implement this.” But then I look at Europe, and it appears they are deadly serious. Emphasis on the ‘deadly’. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/818 "2022-07-10T22:24:39Z")
This area is well outside my limited expertise. However, Canada has often had much more environmental talk than action. The Liberal website you curated mentions this in very vague terms without quantification… No government is going to do anything that, with few benefits and good reason, greatly upsets the farmers. Talk of proposals and consultations means about as much the usual meaningless cross-country tour to talk to ordinary Canadians. Not much. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/819 "2022-07-10T22:26:58Z")
The madness of Putin invading Ukraine is a big factor in a lot of what is happening now, just saying that he will pursue the war indefinitely (as if that was not madness) and declaring what the others do _ **is** _ the madness is… really a very underwhelming argument. I looked at the Sri Lanka issue and while the nitrogen fertilizer item was a factor of the unrest there, [Sri lanka changed course on fertilizers back in October 2021](https://phys.org/news/2021-10-sri-lanka-reverses-farming-tea.html), if there had been no war this would have been one among many other dumb things the Sri Lankan government did wrong; another factor, and also thanks to Russian craziness, is that the war caused shortages on wheat imports and Sri Lanka is not the only country that is suffering thanks to the Russian madness. The real craziness of Putin’s war made things worse. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/820 "2022-07-10T22:35:20Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The madness of Putin invading Ukraine is a big factor in a lot of what is happening now, just saying that he will pursue the war indefinitely (as if that was not madness) and declaring what the others do _ **is** _ the madness is… really a very underwhelming argument. You are likely to disagree with here here, but I’d say the war in Ukraine is a direct result of the crazy climate policies of Germany and other Euro states. Putin likely would not have invaded Ukraine if he didn’t have confidence in keeping Germany and other countries now beholden to Russian natural gas out of the conflict. Also, he could not afford the war if he did not have massive gas sales to Europe. But yes, now that the war is on it is adding to European unrest and threatening energy supplies even more. Which is why it is utter madness for Germany to be shuttering its nuclear plants now. Especially after the EU just declared nuclear power a green energy source. It’s almost like Germany is simply doing the bidding of Putin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186.md?page=42)