# Canadian 'dopers, how serious is all this about Justin Trudeau? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868 "2020-07-20T20:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/181 "2020-10-11T00:06:07Z")
Missed edit window: By the way, I was responding to you saying that prorogations have been too frequent in the past decade. Are you now changing your objection to the motive instead? šŸ¤” ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/182 "2020-10-11T03:04:00Z")
A decade misses the prorogations of 2008 and 2009 under Harper. I should have used a longer time period. It is true there was a historical time when prorogations lasted 150 days or more - as MPs lacked communication tools or air travel to look after business in their home riding. And it is true ā€œprorogationā€ is not a dirty word and refers to ending Parliament. The problem is with ā€œrogue prorogationsā€ meant to avoid discussion of scandals. Few would argue that Parliament can be dysfunctional as in practice decisions are made by the PM and tight inner circle, not by MPs. I am for political reform because practices like omnibus bills or cutting off debate by prorogue are ultimately anti-democratic. I favour an elected Senate too FWIW. @NorthernPiper has learned opinions which are always welcome and is not the source of the hypocrisy. This comes from Liberals (such as Ignatieff) who were critical of these anti-democratic practices under Harper and vowed to stop them or require approval from other bodies. ā€œGood politicsā€ has trumped good practices and sober second thoughts. The first thought of future governments facing difficulties should not, in theory, be shutting down debate by straining mechanisms. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/183 "2020-10-11T05:53:23Z")
Iā€™m afraid Iā€™m not understanding your position. Are you saying that Parliament should be in perpetual session, with no adjournments or close of session? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/184 "2020-10-11T16:34:10Z")
Of course not. I donā€™t think I said that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/185 "2020-10-12T01:30:07Z")
Iā€™m sorry then, weā€™re obviously speaking at cross-purposes. I honestly donā€™t understand what your object is to prorogation. šŸ¤” ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/186 "2020-10-12T02:00:50Z")
Well, what would you say about this article? > **[Trudeau prorogues parliament, ending WE investigations and leaving Commons...](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/liberals-to-prorogue-parliament-until-fall)** > > Trudeau said he had no choice but to suspend Parliament until Sept. 23, so his government could reset and introduce a new throne speech ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/187 "2020-10-12T02:33:39Z")
(I donā€™t fully agree with this article, and the opposition will quibble. But the timing suggests extending Covid funding was only one of the governmentā€™s concerns.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/188 "2020-10-18T17:03:29Z")
I would say three things: 1. The Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance both testified before the committees, and the Minister of Finance resigned both from Cabinet and from the Commons. That is how parliamentary accountability works: the members of the Government can be called to account by the Commons committees. 2. Every government needs time when Parliament is not in session, for planning for the upcoming year. The summer is a traditional time for summer recesses, since Parliament does not need to be in continual session. The prorogation was for approximately a month, which is not an unusual amount of time for Parliament not to be sitting. 3. Now that the new session has started, the Opposition is continuing to raise the issue in the Commons, in their efforts to call the government to account, which is exactly how the system is supposed to work. The prorogation did not prevent the Opposition from continuing to do their job. > **[Conservatives push for vote on WE scandal as Liberals delay committee motions](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/conservatives-push-for-vote-on-we-scandal-as-liberals-delay-committee-motions)** > > The move is part of an attempt to force the WE issue into the House of Commons after Liberal MPs this week stifled debate on the topic in two committees ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/189 "2020-10-18T18:46:49Z")
All those things are true. And I would vote Liberal were an election held today. However, the cynic in me suggests the sudden timing was chosen strategically, because both the voters and media have postmodern attention spans. If you claim to have sunny ways you should have to let some light in. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/190 "2020-10-20T13:16:47Z")
And the beat goes on: > **[Liberals threaten to call election if Parliament passes 'anti-corruption'...](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/liberals-threaten-to-call-election-if-parliament-passes-anti-corruption-committee-motion)** > > The committee would be composed of 15 MPs tasked with delving into the WE Charity scandal and other possible conflicts of interest involving the Liberals Opposition want to establish anti-corruption committee to investigate WE and other allegations; Government suggest that if Commons passes that motion, they would treat it as a confidence motion, triggering an election. Prorogation is in the rear-view mirror. Real debate in Parliament is the merits of what the Government did, not a procedural step in the life of Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/191 "2020-10-20T14:02:09Z")
The government is saying this is not the time to deal with things because Covid, so threaten an election no one wants. They were hoping people would forget or consider this contretemps lower priority, which they probably do. ā€œWEā€™ve moved onā€. Their throne speech would have been more ambitious if they truly wanted a reset due to policy. The opposition is saying because of prorogation they have to do this now. They are trying to keep it in the news and voters minds. Oā€™Toole is trying to show his party is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/192 "2020-10-20T20:48:18Z")
I think that should there be an election in the near future, the party/parties that are seen as responsible for triggering it will be punished pretty severely at the polls. I further think that the Liberals treating a motion to establish an anti-corruption investigation as a confidence motion will be seen as making the Liberals that party, particularly because I would expect the other parties to say loudly that thereā€™s no reason it should have to be a confidence motion. I donā€™t have a whole lot of use for Trudeau as a leader, but I thought he was smarter than that. If he wants to go to the polls he needs to manipulate the opposition parties into making a direct motion of non-confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/193 "2020-10-20T21:09:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance both testified before the committees, and the Minister of Finance resigned both from Cabinet and from the Commons. No, the finance minister survived the scandals just fine. What did him in was that he actually knew somethjng about finance, and could not go along with Trudeauā€™s crazy economic plans. He resigned rather than preside over the lunatic financial ideas of Trudeauā€™s cabinet - none of whom know a damned thing about finances. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/194 "2020-10-21T11:53:24Z")
Trudeau is right though. Canadians donā€™t want to see their financial resources spent on politicking ā€˜committee styleā€˜, to score points, when it could be better spent helping those in need, businesses and citizens. Yes, it was wrong and a scandal, but we live in different times. Any party that pushes for this is gonna find a truly negative reaction is my guess. Canadians donā€™t have the stomach for this kind of ā€˜business as usualā€˜ sniping and griping to spend money and get in the papers. Any election triggered will only double that resentment. I donā€™t like what he did either, an election will likely return him to a majority government, and he knows it. But, the opposition hates not making news, and shooting themselves in the foot is one of their specialties, so maybe theyā€™ll force it. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/195 "2020-10-21T12:44:09Z")
Opinion on the issue appears to be pretty split, at least according to this poll. I certainly donā€™t think it is an election winning move for the CPC. Although, it is hard to say how backing down will play. Realistically, if they back down, then by the time there is an election supporters would likes have moved on. Overall, Iā€™m not in favor of the committee. The scandal was dumb. For some reason, historically Liberals always have really dumb scandals but Iā€™m more interested in how parties will govern the country than scandals. > **[Abacus Data | Canadians are divided on whether MPs should vote for...](https://abacusdata.ca/confidence-vote-election-october-2020/)** ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/196 "2020-10-21T13:38:31Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Canadians donā€™t want to see their financial resources spent on politicking ā€˜committee styleā€˜ Cite? wondering how you know what all Canadians think of the issue? Personally, I often have trouble figuring out what I think on politics, let alone all Canadians. šŸ¤” ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/197 "2020-10-27T23:05:32Z")
Amazingly, Canadians were voted ā€œbest governanceā€ in a global survey. I assume perceptions matter more than facts; this reputation won few UN Security Council votes. Will start a separate thread about this survey. [https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/Germany-Retains-Top-Nation-Brand-Ranking-the-United-Kingdom-emerges-ahead-of-Canada-to-Round-Out-the-Top-Three-US-and-China-Experience-Significant-Decline](https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/Germany-Retains-Top-Nation-Brand-Ranking-the-United-Kingdom-emerges-ahead-of-Canada-to-Round-Out-the-Top-Three-US-and-China-Experience-Significant-Decline) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/198 "2020-10-28T00:01:57Z")
Iā€™m afraid Iā€™m sceptical of the methodology: the UK improved its ranking to second place this year, because of improved perceptions about its ā€œgovernanceā€? After the past three years of Brexit hell?!? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/199 "2020-10-28T01:19:53Z")
Many things in the survey make little sense. I always take these things very lightly. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/200 "2020-10-28T17:08:37Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Amazingly, Canadians were voted ā€œbest governanceā€ in a global survey. I assume perceptions matter more than facts; this reputation won few UN Security Council votes. > > Will start a separate thread about this survey. > > [https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/Germany-Retains-Top-Nation-Brand-Ranking-the-United-Kingdom-emerges-ahead-of-Canada-to-Round-Out-the-Top-Three-US-and-China-Experience-Significant-Decline](https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/Germany-Retains-Top-Nation-Brand-Ranking-the-United-Kingdom-emerges-ahead-of-Canada-to-Round-Out-the-Top-Three-US-and-China-Experience-Significant-Decline) Jesus Christ, how low is the fucking bar?!? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868.md?page=11)