# Canadian 'dopers, how serious is all this about Justin Trudeau? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868 "2020-07-20T20:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/101 "2020-08-13T02:34:19Z")
No, that’s what the Bloc demanded today. > **[Trudeau and Morneau should resign or risk snap election: opposition](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-and-morneau-should-resign-or-risk-snap-election-opposition-1.5037639)** > > Opposition parties are ratcheting up their calls for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Finance Minister Bill Morneau to resign, with the Conservatives and Bloc Quebecois saying that the Liberals could be facing a fall election, if actions beyond... I suspect this is just an opening bid. They’ll settle for Morneau’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/102 "2020-08-13T07:05:18Z")
I suspect it is just talk. They certainly don’t think Trudeau will resign. The Liberals are probably still in majority government territory. The NDP would probably be willing to make a different deal. That said, time will tell if Morneau gets stuffed or shuffled. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/103 "2020-08-13T16:04:19Z")
Some of the questions were fair. Some of them were not especially the endless interrupting. I like when the speaker came back “It wouldn’t be the first time you tried to put my lights out.” LOL ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/104 "2020-08-18T00:52:48Z")
Looks like Morneau is overboard. Might take some heat of Trudeau, but it looks like this has been worst for WE Charity. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/105 "2020-08-18T01:30:14Z")
As expected, the lamb has been sacrificed. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/106 "2020-08-18T02:18:33Z")
I didn’t think even that would happen. I certainly don’t think the real bone of contention is a principled gentlemen’s debate over the future of budgetary prudence. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/107 "2020-08-18T15:24:06Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > As expected, the lamb has been sacrificed. More like the lamb wandered off to see what kind of shenanigans the OECD-set get up to in the winter. 🙂 Curious why Freeland was moved to Finance when there are plenty of others in the Liberal party capable of managing it. Placeholder position I guess? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/108 "2020-08-18T15:28:09Z")
She’s well liked, capable and willing to tow government lines. She is a good Minister but has ruffled waters with some countries. That’s not necessarily bad (or really get fault), but you see what happens when you govern by Twitter. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/109 "2020-08-18T20:15:57Z")
She has no experience in or training for being finance minister. Aside from his corruption, Morneau has a BA, an MBA and a M.Sc in economics from the London School of Economics, plus a long career in business. Those are exactly the kinds of credentials you want in a finance minister. Chrystia Freeland has an M.Sc in Slavic cultural studies and a degree in literature. She worked as a journalist. She knows absolutely nothing about finance. This, of course, makes her perfect for Trudeau’s cabinet. The problem with a guy like Morneau is that they sometimes let facts get in the way of ideology, what with all that pesky education and experience. Canada is already running a $343 billion deficit, and idiot Trudeau wants to spend trillions more, while raising taxes dramatically. Morneau wasn’t comfortable with that, so he had to go. Corruption? Featherbedding? That he survived. Having a lick of common sense about our finances? THAT was the fatal blow. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/110 "2020-08-18T23:27:51Z")
Interesting move I feel like… if Freeland manages to do well in the role, she’ll have massively boosted her credentials to be the next PM. If she does poorly, she’ll make an easy scapegoat due to her lack of experience (which won’t reflect well on Trudeau, but deflecting responsibility seems to be one of his top skills). ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/111 "2020-08-19T00:35:59Z")
Plus she and Doug Ford have a great working relationship. Both have shone over the last year, together they stand to do great things in Ontario. And, in the process, solidify and build voter respect moving forward. They both stand to gain from that, I think. I think she’s proven pretty shrewd, and successful at whatever task she’s been assigned, and people have a lot of respect for that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/112 "2020-08-19T03:18:06Z")
Freeland is smart, shrewd and skillful. But writing Plutocrats doesn’t mean she can balance budgets, especially now. She’d probably do okay. But bankers supposedly think Morneau to be a rare voice of prudence (which may be harder to argue given some possible ethical lapses). The decision to prorogue Parliament? This is happening way too often over the last decade and should be more strongly discouraged. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/113 "2020-08-19T21:35:26Z")
The Post claims Trudeau is looking for a legacy and is about to spend a lot more money. Perhaps he’d like to acquire my new and expensive painting, Voice of Fire In A Crowded Theatre which will soon be available to National Galleries if a surprisingly high price is offered. More seriously, I’m not sure Trudeau has been spending as wisely as possible and I hope he retains some prudence. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/114 "2020-08-20T03:05:07Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > More seriously, I’m not sure Trudeau has been spending as wisely as possible and I hope he retains some prudence. Well, we can always hope. I wouldn’t hold much of it, though as expecting prudence from someone who’s never had to worry about where the next dollar was coming from is unlikely to be realized. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/115 "2020-08-21T03:03:41Z")
It’s funny, so many people freaked out when ol’ Steve Harper prorogued Parliament of his own political benefit. You don’t hear any of the same people freaking out when Justin Trudeau does it. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/116 "2020-08-21T11:13:55Z")
[Was proroguing Parliament a political opportunity for the government? | At Issue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBMhwes0YGk) 10:51 mins Of course it’s a political game for the Liberals who are getting more bullish at opposition’s traction to their scandal. Chantal Hebert made a good point at the Liberal tactic being wiping the slate for the purpose of introducing a policy that they can campaign on. Basically the Libs smell a possible election due to the Bloc’s signaling and want something defendable to fall on their sword (Chantal believes an election will nonetheless not happen in the fall) . As for Harper’s use of proroguement. It was so controversial due the context of avoiding a confidence vote from a bill HE INTRODUCED. The bill would’ve BOTH removed the ability of civil servants to strike AND removed funding to the parties. Harper knew that without funding the opposition was in no financial state to fight an election so he assumed he would just destroy all ability to do so within the next year, plus he would kneecap the civil servants too. The opposition instead vowed to defeat the bill and form an unprecedented coalition to control the house. So with all the plans having gone to butter in his hands and facing a guaranteed ejection from and return to his old home in Stornoway Harper wanted to declare a proroguement to avoid facing the immediate vote he triggered. The Governor General granted it to him and forced him to publicly declare a commitment to cooperation and good governance (a speech which Harper grit his teeth through). This wasn’t even addressing the constitutional crisis the whole event was, Harper forcing an opposition coalition then running away from it by throwing the political football directly onto the Governor General’s plate. The GG making any decision here treads on constitutional new grounds; doubly untested if the Governor General sided with the opposition coalition and actually DENIED prorogation, can you even imagine the clusterfuck that would have happened if the GG exercised her full legal powers here? It would be unheard of. Years later I heard that Harper’s fallback plan would be to fly to England and directly ask the Queen to overide the GG, but I never sourced that claim. It was just a hot, stinking, mess all because Harper wanted to kneecap opposition election funding after a recent election, not for any serious national emergency to our country. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/117 "2020-08-21T11:41:34Z")
The story about Harper flying to the Queen [comes from](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/stephen-harper-pondered-appeal-to-queen-over-prorogation/article1214218/) Harper’s director of communications Kory Teneycke (a particularly nasty piece of work who was VP of Sun News Network -Fox News North) so it’s most assuredly true. [More about the GG’s decision on her actions](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/michaelle-jean-feared-dreadful-crisis-when-harper-sought-prorogation-ex-adviser/article4370133/): > Constitutional scholar Peter Russell told [OntarioNewsWatch.com](http://OntarioNewsWatch.com) this week that weighing on Ms. Jean’s mind at the time was the likelihood the Tories – had they lost office – would have poisoned confidence in the coalition government through a PR campaign framing the change as an illegitimate transfer of power… > > …Asked why she ultimately consented to Mr. Harper’s request, Mr. Russell said: “I think her reasons were that parliamentary democracy is going to be protected sufficiently to avoid a dangerous and dreadful crisis by giving an affirmative answer to the Prime Minister.” ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/118 "2020-08-21T17:50:26Z")
I didn’t freak out when Harper did it. I thought it was wrong to do it to avoid a political crisis. And I think it is wrong of Trudeau to do it too. In fact, I think it is worse for Trudeau to do it because he explicitly said he wouldn’t. Now I’m just an anecdote and not data, but there you go. 🙂 For me, any election is still going to largely come down to the CPoC leader and their platform. I could hypothetically vote for the CPoC because I’m not thrilled with the Trudeau government this term. Although I do have to give them some leeway for COVID. I suspect the CPoC is going to put somebody up who is unelectable to me. I’ll probably vote NDP (since I live in SK my vote pretty much doesn’t matter anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/119 "2020-08-24T06:12:49Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > It was just a hot, stinking, mess all because Harper wanted to kneecap opposition election funding after a recent election, not for any serious national emergency to our country. Anything unethical or illegal about it, though? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868/120 "2020-08-24T14:08:27Z")
O’Toole snatches the leadership win from MacKay’s grubby hands. Time to bring back [this 15 year old national gem](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-07dFfwEcc). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-how-serious-is-all-this-about-justin-trudeau/915868.md?page=7)