# Canadian drugs are unsafe but it's ok to outsource the flu vaccine? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367 "2004-10-09T15:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/1 "2004-10-09T15:03:33Z")
I don’t know about the rest of you, but this flu vaccine crisis is really fucking up my life at the moment. My department coordinates the flu clinics for seniors our hospital offera all around the area, and of course no one knows what to do yet. But tempers are fraying and voices are raising, and it’s not a pleasant scene. We just sent out notices of our flu clinic dates and times about a month ago – so there are probably hundreds of calendars and flyers hung up all around the county. Our hospital made the right choices this year. We picked the right vendor and ordered early, we already have our uncontaminated supply in hand. But now we can’t use it. Why? Basically management paralysis – no one seems to have any understanding of the hospital’s legal rights regarding the ownership of the vaccine. I’m not sure why, as I’ve seen some of the PO’s used to order it, and we certainly paid for it. But the head pharmacist is for the moment refusing to dispense it because the remaining supply may be recalled and reallocated. That seems very farfetched to me – how much more vaccine would be ruined in such a massive reshuffle? More likely the three big hospitals in town will sit down and reallocate among themselves, IMHO. I’ve had two days now of steady phone calls from old folks asking about our clinics, which are scheduled to start next Wednesday, and I can’t tell them anything. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/2 "2004-10-09T15:58:15Z")
Someone one asked the precise same question on some talk radio show yesterday to an FDA official. IIRC the answer was that Chiron is licensed by the FDA/US Government to produce this product for US import and use. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/3 "2004-10-09T17:10:31Z")
To be distributed in this country they require FDA approval. The flu vaccine produce in Birtain has it, Canadian drugs do not. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/4 "2004-10-09T17:38:20Z")
> [@Dr. Lao](#): > > To be distributed in this country they require FDA approval. The flu vaccine produce in Birtain has it, Canadian drugs do not. We are not talking about “Canadian” drugs. We are talking about [FDA-approved, U.S.-made drugs](http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=34780) being _re_-imported _back_ to the U.S. after they’ve been exported to Canada, to be sold at a much cheaper price than we’re allowed to buy them on this side of the border _before_ exportation. Pretty convoluted and stupid if you ask me. Sorry about your flu vaccine woes, **Boyo Jim**. Hope it gets cleared up soon. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/5 "2004-10-09T18:32:40Z")
Related thread [Pharmaceutical drugs prices - Why do Canadians get a much better deal than we do?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=19229) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/6 "2004-10-09T18:35:27Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Related thread > > [Pharmaceutical drugs prices - Why do Canadians get a much better deal than we do?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=19229) WTH!? Here let’s try that link again [Pharmaceutical drugs prices - Why do Canadians get a much better deal than we do?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=192296&highlight=drugs) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/7 "2004-10-09T19:09:09Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > We are not talking about “Canadian” drugs. We are talking about [FDA-approved, U.S.-made drugs](http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=34780) being _re_-imported _back_ to the U.S. after they’ve been exported to Canada, to be sold at a much cheaper price than we’re allowed to buy them on this side of the border _before_ exportation. Pretty convoluted and stupid if you ask me. In many cases, though, they are not: [http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2004/NEW01087.html](http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2004/NEW01087.html) [http://www.fda.gov/importeddrugs/chart071304.html](http://www.fda.gov/importeddrugs/chart071304.html) [http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2004/NEW01011.html](http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2004/NEW01011.html) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/8 "2004-10-09T19:09:24Z")
I’m confused. Canadian drugs are bad mkay, because those evil terrorists are going to poison us, but drugs from other countries such as Britain are OK? While realizing not all drugs in Canada were manufactured in the US, why would something made here with FDA approval become unapproved because it went up there and came right back down here? Are those evil Canadians ripping all the safety caps and sticky things off the bottles? Sorry, I think it has more to do with lobbyists, campaign money, and other shady backroom dealing than anything else. Besides, the Canadians bombed the Baldwins, so what’s not to like? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/9 "2004-10-09T19:21:29Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > While realizing not all drugs in Canada were manufactured in the US, why would something made here with FDA approval become unapproved because it went up there and came right back down here? Because in most cases there is no assurance that the drugs were made here. The drug’s originaly manufacturer can reimport the drug if he wants to. What we are talking about are dugs that are repacked, relabled, and shipped back here. They might be expired, they might be intermingled with Canadian made versions. We don’t know because these facilities are not subject to FDA inspections. The British vaccine manufacturer was inspected by the FDA. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/10 "2004-10-09T20:11:41Z")
Please, can we leave the Canadian drug bit out of the flu vaccine problem. Just understand that the safety of Canadian drugs was merely a red herring thrown up by the Bush Administration to find more widespread support for blocking the importation, or re-importation of Canadian drugs as the case may be. Although certainly there are drugs in Canada that aren’t safe due to tampering, forgery, etc., the proportion is likely just as high if not higher among American drugs. Anyone recall those dilluted, forged, or just plain saline chemotherapy or anti-Cancer drugs from a few years ago? And it was done by just a run-of-the-mill pharmacist who was born and raised in the United States that just happened to be facing personal bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/11 "2004-10-09T20:15:55Z")
Of course all the drugs made here, are perfectly safe. Vioxx. Phen Phen. Don’t forget a classic biggy, Thalidomide. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/12 "2004-10-10T00:29:04Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Of course all the drugs made here, are perfectly safe. Vioxx. Phen Phen. Don’t forget a classic biggy, Thalidomide. Thalidomide? In the 50s and 60s, thalidomide was manufactured in Germany. It was approved for sale in many countries including England and Canada, but never the US (thanks largely to one woman, the FDA’s Dr. Frances Kelsey). So you could have bought it in Canada, but not the US. Are you referring to its new, heavily supervised uses, or is this a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/13 "2004-10-10T00:43:56Z")
> [@Dr. Lao](#): > > We don’t know because these facilities are not subject to FDA inspections. The British vaccine manufacturer was inspected by the FDA. Yeah, and a fat lot of good that did, since apparently the FDA didn’t catch the violations found by the British :rolleyes: . ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/14 "2004-10-10T04:36:08Z")
[Britain: U.S. was told of vaccine shortage](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6210286/) > [@](#): > > Records at Britain’s Department of Health show that the plant’s owner, Chiron Corp., warned officials of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the British Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency on September 13 that potential contamination problems remained unresolved at the plant, according to Alison Langley, a senior spokeswoman at the department. The Brits took action: > [@](#): > > health officials in Britain responded to the warning by seeking other possible sources for the vaccine. “That’s when we started making our contingency plans by contacting other manufacturers,” Langley said. The US sat on its buttocks: > [@](#): > > Officials of the United States Food and Drug Administration said they were unaware of the severity of the problem until the British action. Chiron told the F.D.A. in late August of a contamination problem. But the agency said in a statement that it was told the contamination was limited and that none of the F.D.A. staff “who were in regular communication with Chiron since Aug. 25, 2004, were notified by Chiron that there was an increased level of concern regarding the company’s investigation of the bacterial contamination.” > > There was no communication between the F.D.A. and the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, the British drug regulator, from mid-September until Tuesday, both agencies said. [F.D.A. Says It Was Not Told of Possibility of Vaccine Shortage](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/politics/10flu.html) Now we’re screwed, and all we hear from Washington is _excuses_. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/15 "2004-10-10T05:43:33Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m confused. Canadian drugs are bad mkay, because those evil terrorists are going to poison us, but drugs from other countries such as Britain are OK? While realizing not all drugs in Canada were manufactured in the US, why would something made here with FDA approval become unapproved because it went up there and came right back down here? Are those evil Canadians ripping all the safety caps and sticky things off the bottles? Sorry, I think it has more to do with lobbyists, campaign money, and other shady backroom dealing than anything else. Besides, the Canadians bombed the Baldwins, so what’s not to like? That’s because there are no terrorists in Britain, while they’re dropping out of the trees in Canada. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/16 "2004-10-10T14:09:29Z")
> [@Dr. Lao](#): > > In many cases, though, they are not: > > [http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2004/NEW01087.html](http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2004/NEW01087.html) > [http://www.fda.gov/importeddrugs/chart071304.html](http://www.fda.gov/importeddrugs/chart071304.html) > [http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2004/NEW01011.html](http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2004/NEW01011.html) Excuse me, but the FDA decided to check on “Canadian drugs” by answering SPAM?! Do tell, did the morons pick up a bunch of Nigerian stock tips at the same fucking time? Shit, if you’re relying on spam instead of something legitimate (which is pretty damn easy to check out) you’re a tool. And if the only thing stopping the FDA from letting ‘canadian’ drugs into the U.S. is inspections, well then fucking ASK to see the facilities. Or maybe the US could take a bold, socialist move and NEGOTIATE WITH DRUG COMPANIES LIKE EVERY OTHER FUCKING CIVILIZED PLACE IN THE WORLD! ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/17 "2004-10-10T14:12:31Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > Or maybe the US could take a bold, socialist move and NEGOTIATE WITH DRUG COMPANIES LIKE EVERY OTHER FUCKING CIVILIZED PLACE IN THE WORLD! Don’t hold your breath, hon. I will not get on a rant about the difference in health care here and at home. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/18 "2004-10-10T14:15:29Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > Excuse me, but the FDA decided to check on “Canadian drugs” by answering SPAM?! Do tell, did the morons pick up a bunch of Nigerian stock tips at the same fucking time? This is where a lot of people are getting their “Canadian generic” drugs from. If the FDA’s job is to protect the public health, shouldn’t we be looking where the greatest risk is to the greatest number of people? > [@](#): > > And if the only thing stopping the FDA from letting ‘canadian’ drugs into the U.S. is inspections, well then fucking ASK to see the facilities. Why should the facilities say yes, especially when they have no problem selling the unregulated stuff over the internet? Inspections means that they’ll have to come into complience if they are deficient, and that costs money and that means fewer profits. > [@](#): > > Or maybe the US could take a bold, socialist move and NEGOTIATE WITH DRUG COMPANIES LIKE EVERY OTHER FUCKING CIVILIZED PLACE IN THE WORLD! Because drug companies have a lot of lobbying power and negotiated lower prices means fewer profits for them. So, they make sure that bills that might result in anything like price controls never make their way through Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/19 "2004-10-10T14:27:18Z")
> [@Dr. Lao](#): > > Because drug companies have a lot of lobbying power and negotiated lower prices means fewer profits for them. So, they make sure that bills that might result in anything like price controls never make their way through Congress. Or, I should say, drug companies don’t “make sure” negotiated prices do not make their way through Congress, but rather lobby very, very hard against such bills. And to date they have been very successful. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367/20 "2004-10-10T16:45:28Z")
> [@LilyoftheValley](#): > > Thalidomide? > > In the 50s and 60s, thalidomide was manufactured in Germany. It was approved for sale in many countries including England and Canada, but never the US (thanks largely to one woman, the FDA’s Dr. Frances Kelsey). > > So you could have bought it in Canada, but not the US. > > Are you referring to its new, heavily supervised uses, or is this a whoosh? It was a blunder, plain and simple. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-drugs-are-unsafe-but-its-ok-to-outsource-the-flu-vaccine/268367.md?page=2)