# Canadian Parliament Attacked **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149 "2014-10-22T14:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/281 "2014-10-25T14:14:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > A ceremonial guard is not a security guard. Cirillo’s job was not to shoot people, or threaten to shoot people, or enforce the law. His job was to engage in a ceremony. I agree, but ceremonial guards are also a greater target by virtue of their uniform and ceremonial duties. Maybe arming them isn’t the right answer, but it should be acknowledged that they’re a greater target. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/282 "2014-10-25T14:59:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree, but ceremonial guards are also a greater target by virtue of their uniform and ceremonial duties. Maybe arming them isn’t the right answer, but it should be acknowledged that they’re a greater target. Greater target in what way? How many times in history are ceremonial guards a terrorist target? As happened last week, off duty soldiers are far and away a more common target. Greater because killing one makes a bigger statement? Maybe to some degree but it’s debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/283 "2014-10-26T01:17:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I feel now the way I did then . It is a privilege and an honor to be the neighbor, and to share the longest undefended border in human history, with a nation that breeeds such men. > > Regards, > Shodan Feeling is mutual. Out of all the countries in the world, If I had to choose again… it still be the U.S. I’d want as my neighbour. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/284 "2014-10-26T17:12:42Z")
More details from CBC News. It’s amazing to think that the sergeant-at-arms is largely a ceremonial position that involves carrying a symbolic golden mace – this guy was more like an action-movie hero: > [@](#): > > CBC News has learned the dramatic details of that face-to-face encounter, when the 58-year-old Vickers confronted Zehaf-Bibeau and killed him at point-blank range. > > Zehaf-Bibeau had exchanged gunshots with parliamentary security at the entrance of Centre Block and ran down the long Hall of Honour towards the doors to the Parliamentary Library. > > As he ran down the hall, pursued by RCMP officers, he passed the barricaded doors on his left, behind which the prime minister and the Conservative MPs were meeting. On his right, the doors to another caucus room where NDP MPs were diving for cover. > > He shot at both doors, with one bullet penetrating the outer doors to the NDP caucus room. > > Zehaf-Bibeau continued down the hall toward the wooden doors of the Library of Parliament, where he lodged himself behind a stone pillar beside an alcove to the right of the library’s entrance. > > Vickers’ office is around the corner, a few metres away. > > Hearing gunshots, Vickers grabbed his side arm, a semi-automatic pistol, and immediately ran out. His security team, who had been chasing Bibeau, yelled to Vickers that the suspect was hiding in the alcove. > > Vickers immediately ran behind the other side of the pillar. That put him an arm’s-length away from Bibeau. > > According to guards, Vickers actually could see the barrel of Bibeau’s gun pointing out, a foot away. > > Vickers did not hesitate. > > In one motion, sources told CBC News he dove to the floor around the pillar, at the feet of Bibeau, turning on his back as he landed and simultaneously firing his weapon upwards at Bibeau. > > Bibeau was hit multiple times and fell to the ground. Vickers kept firing, emptying his entire magazine. > > As soon as Bibeau dropped, the rest of the security team sprinted forward and opened fire. > > Several bullet holes in the walls in the alcove give a sense of the numbers of rounds fired, and many more hit Bibeau. > > One bullet passed right through the wooden library doors, hitting the librarians’ desk deep inside. > > But no one else was injured in that final exchange of gunfire. > > According to sources, Vickers calmly got up after the firing was over and went back to his office to reload his gun in case a threat remained. > **[The face-to-face encounter that ended the attack on Parliament | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-shooting-the-face-to-face-encounter-that-ended-the-attack-on-parliament-1.2812802)** > > CBC News has learned dramatic new details about the final seconds of Wednesday's attack on Parliament Hill - and the crucial role Sergeant-at-Arms Kevin Vickers played in ending the threat. Evan Solomon has the story. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/285 "2014-10-26T19:03:30Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > More details from CBC News. It’s amazing to think that the sergeant-at-arms is largely a ceremonial position that involves carrying a symbolic golden mace – this guy was more like an action-movie hero: Except it’s not a largely ceremonial position. He is the head of security for Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/286 "2014-10-26T19:44:30Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Except it’s not a largely ceremonial position. He is the head of security for Parliament. I’m aware of that. It was even discussed earlier in this thread and his position as head of security is mentioned several times in the article you linked [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17839292&postcount=140). But as you also mentioned [over here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17839467&postcount=154), this is the first time he’s fired a gun in the line of duty in his career, including 29 years with the RCMP. I was really just commenting on his amazing heroics for someone who spends a lot more time on ceremonial duties than shooting bad guys! He really put himself at risk throwing himself in front of the shooter like that – it’s the kind of stuff you usually only see in movies. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/287 "2014-10-26T21:03:34Z")
The fact that this is the first time he’s fired a shot in the line of duty speaks more to the nature of policing in Canada, and likely his own approach to the job. That record isn’t that unusual, from conversations I’ve had with police officers. Just because an RCMP officer can retire after 29 years without firing a shot does not mean that they hold ceremonial positions. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/288 "2014-10-26T21:30:00Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The fact that this is the first time he’s fired a shot in the line of duty speaks more to the nature of policing in Canada, and likely his own approach to the job. > > That record isn’t that unusual, from conversations I’ve had with police officers. > > Just because an RCMP officer can retire after 29 years without firing a shot does not mean that they hold ceremonial positions. 🙂 I would think most police in Canada go a whole career without firing their gun in the line of duty. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/289 "2014-10-26T21:46:46Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The fact that this is the first time he’s fired a shot in the line of duty speaks more to the nature of policing in Canada, and likely his own approach to the job. > > That record isn’t that unusual, from conversations I’ve had with police officers. > > Just because an RCMP officer can retire after 29 years without firing a shot does not mean that they hold ceremonial positions. 🙂 Actually most police in the US, even those who work in the big cities like Chicago, LA, or New York go their entire careers without discharging their weapons. Yes, people might be surprised at that based on the way things are portrayed in Hollywood and the media, but it’s the truth. I’d love it if the media could best be exemplified by the slogan “nothing but the truth” but “if it bleeds, it leads” is vastly more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/290 "2014-10-26T22:02:39Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I would think most police in Canada go a whole career without firing their gun in the line of duty. It’s my understanding that’s true of most police in most of the westernized nations, at least where they’re used for law enforcement and not oppression. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/291 "2014-10-27T00:43:56Z")
Maybe I’m out of line in wondering, but was the shooter perchance involved with the Ottawa Panhandlers Union? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/292 "2014-10-27T01:29:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Maybe I’m out of line in wondering, but was the shooter perchance involved with the Ottawa Panhandlers Union? Funny enough he was staying at a local homeless shelter but I doubt he was in that union. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/293 "2014-10-27T01:41:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Maybe I’m out of line in wondering, but was the shooter perchance involved with the Ottawa Panhandlers Union? You do realize, of course, that your are inviting a return of that nutter. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/294 "2014-10-27T02:35:42Z")
Oh come on, he was one of the most adorable lunatics the board has ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/295 "2014-10-27T03:37:20Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > You do realize, of course, that your are inviting a return of that nutter. 😉 IIRC, he was banned. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/296 "2014-10-27T04:42:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Funny enough he was staying at a local homeless shelter but I doubt he was in that union. Great, first it was Justin Bieber and now an unlicensed panhandler terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/297 "2014-10-27T14:57:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s my understanding that’s true of most police in most of the westernized nations, at least where they’re used for law enforcement and not oppression. Oh, I wasn’t trying to suggest that Canadian policing was unusual. It’s just that I know a bit about Canadian policing, and not much about policing in other western countries, so was restricting my comment to what I knew about. I’m not surprised to hear it’s similar in other western countries. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/298 "2014-10-27T14:58:19Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Oh come on, he was one of the most adorable lunatics the board has ever seen. Agreed, but one can have too much of a good thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/299 "2014-10-27T16:45:03Z")
I was just wondering if the Dope had a closer connection to this guy than we’d like to realize. The shelter-resident community on Ottawa can’t be all that large. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149/300 "2014-10-27T20:46:06Z")
Well, here’s something to debate: was this crime or was it terrorism? I say crime. It looks like the shooter was a lone nut who was trying hard to get involved in overseas conflict but since he couldn’t do that he decided to bring the conflict here. I don’t think he was specifically told by ISIS/Al Qaeda/etc that he should do this. I think his drug addiction is much more of a motivating factor than his religion. Most importantly, I think we should respond to it as if it is crime rather than terrorism. CSIS can have all the power in the world to investigate and detain and etc but what this guy needed was mental health authorities and addiction counseling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-parliament-attacked/702149.md?page=16)