# Canadian Politics: What a difference a month makes! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 17, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738 "2005-06-17T19:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/41 "2005-06-24T03:52:08Z")
Too late: [Bill C-48 passes](http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/23/parliament050623.html) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/42 "2005-06-24T03:52:51Z")
**Gorsnak** , I saw a few rumours in the media I was surfing earlier that supported that suggestion: the Bloc won’t change its official position on C-48, that they oppose it, but they won’t put a full three-line whip on the vote, either, so that not all of their members will show up. The ones that do will vote against the bill, but if even two or three Bloc MPs are conveniently away on constituency business that day, the government would survive, and then the next item of business would be C-38. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/43 "2005-06-24T04:09:08Z")
From the story **matt** linked to: > [@](#): > > **Bill C-48 passed in late night sitting** > > The Liberals scored a quick and decisive victory on Thursday night, catching the Conservatives off guard and passing their controversial Bill C-48. > > The bill passed third reading by a vote of 152 to 147. Losing the vote would have automatically triggered a federal election. > > **With a number of Conservative members missing** , the Liberals moved a motion to cut off debate and bring the bill to a vote. C-48 is the NDP amendment to the budget that adds a further $4.6 billion in social spending and the Conservatives were dead set against it. I guess the moral of the story is: if you’re planning an ambush, maybe you shouldn’t advise the news media. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/44 "2005-06-24T04:11:49Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Too late: [Bill C-48 passes](http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/23/parliament050623.html) Well dagnabbit! I go to all this effort speculating on things, and what happens? Nothing! No theatrics, no drama, nothing! Those bastards. On the other hand, looks like we should be celebrating the passage of the same-sex marriage bill soon. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/45 "2005-06-24T04:12:31Z")
Here’s a more detailed story of how it went down: [Budget Add-on Bill passes in Snap Vote](http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1119573744445_5/?hub=CTVNewsAt11). > [@](#): > > In a move that caught the Conservatives completely unawares, Liberal House Leader Tony Valeri proposed a rarely-used time allocation motion in the House of Commons, cutting off debate on Bill C-48. > > The motion passed easily. And after an hour of debate, MPs voted on the bill at around a quarter to midnight ET. > > It was a gamble that could have resulted in an election call if the Liberals lost. But the absence of several Conservative MPs ensured that didn’t happen. > > “It bushwhacked the Conservatives. They didn’t see this coming,” says CTV’s Ottawa bureau chief Robert Fife. > > The Bloc Quebecois joined the Liberals and the NDP to put the debate on the budget to bed and move onto a vote on same-sex marriage. > > “They looked at the numbers. They saw that the Tories had six MPs missing,” says Fife. “They said OK, let’s reuse this rare parliamentary closure motion to cut off debate on C-48 and call a vote.” ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/46 "2005-06-24T04:26:04Z")
Am I reading that right? The Bloc voted _for_ the closure motion? Knowing full well that it would mean passage of C-48 - looks like my speculation might not have been off after all. They want to pass C-38 more than they wanted to defeat C-48. Prediction: Harper and the Tories will make a lot of noise about how this was a sneaky underhanded procedural trick, but they won’t point out the fact that they’ve been using every procedural trick in the book to delay things for the past weeks. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/47 "2005-06-24T05:51:11Z")
Much as how Peter Mackay was screaming about the _Liberals_ being in bed with the sovereignists. So, Peter, just how coked up did you have to be to miss everything your party did last month? No wonder Belinda dumped you. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/48 "2005-06-24T05:53:38Z")
As for the Bloc, one thing is that the Bloc has been under quite some pressure here in Quebec, from all the social groups that are already mobilized against Charest’s cuts, to pass or at least not strenuously block C-48. They may just have gotten to have their cake and eat it too – extend the session ostensibly to deal with the marriage bill, while at the same time voting against C-48, but without defeating it. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/49 "2005-06-24T06:04:12Z")
Well, **Gorsnak** , you must have been following politics more closely than I was during the last few days, because I didn’t see _that_ coming. I never knew that the Bloc was so anxious to have C-38 pass. I know most of them support it, but on the other hand, a few Bloc MPs are actually planning to vote against C-38, so it kind of surprises me that the leadership decided to indirectly help pass a budget that they kept saying was contrary to Québec’s interests, in exchange for a promise that C-38 will be brought to vote in the next few days. I understand what **matt\_mcl** says, that social groups in Québec were pressuring the Bloc not to block C-48, but their position was very clear: this budget was a bad thing. I guess they weren’t telling everything. Well, okay, they’re politicians. 😃 This said, I wonder how the handful of anti-gay marriage Bloc MPs feel right now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/50 "2005-06-24T13:41:47Z")
> [@severus](#): > > This said, I wonder how the handful of anti-gay marriage Bloc MPs feel right now. Probably the same way the anti-SSM Liberals feel; they’re just being swept along. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/51 "2005-06-24T13:58:03Z")
> [@severus](#): > > I understand what **matt\_mcl** says, that social groups in Québec were pressuring the Bloc not to block C-48, but their position was very clear: this budget was a bad thing. I don’t remember that as being their main message: I heard them as being that the _government_ was bad for Quebec and they would be trying to get rid of it _by_ voting down the gummint. The budget being bad for Quebec was, and sounded like, something they were just pulling out of their ass to justify why they wanted to send us into an election. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/52 "2005-06-24T17:40:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Probably the same way the anti-SSM Liberals feel; they’re just being swept along. Probably a good thing too. The Courts have already made the thing a reality in most of the country and no one is seriously looking at using the Notwithstanding clause so really there is nothing that Parliment can do about stopping the SSM laws. Any laws they try to pass against it will be deemed unconstitutional so, really, let’s just stop the endless pointless debate. I say just have the vote get it done and have the summer break open for people to wail and gnash their teeth over it. That way when they come back in the fall Parliment can finally go on to really important issues like say running the country. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/53 "2005-06-25T06:21:24Z")
In other news, Stephen continues to be on another [planet](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050624.wharp0613/BNStory/National/): > [@](#): > > In Quebec City on Friday for a barbecue related to Fête nationale activities, Mr. Harper said it was the first time in Canadian history a budget had passed without the official Opposition having a chance to speak to it. Um, what have they spent the last [month and a half](http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISINFO/index.asp?Lang=E&Chamber=C&StartList=2&EndList=200&Session=13&Type=0&Scope=I&query=4468&List=stat) doing?! And then there was Peter’s little nugget bitching about the Liberals being in bed with the eeevil separatists. My, that sounds [familiar.](http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/102_2005-05-19/HAN102-E.htm#Int-1296896) Really, I don’t mind my previous impressions being proved right, but this “completely disconnected from anything resembling this reality” thing is really getting old. ---
**Author:** ![serious\_lark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@serious\_lark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/serious_lark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/54 "2005-06-30T22:47:30Z")
Once upon a time, I used to enjoy following Canadian politics. Now, all I am left with is the sick sense of watching an inevitable multiple vehicle collision in slow motion. Could the fiscal conservative politicos and the social conservative politicos please stop trying to share the same space, so that we fed up federalist fiscal conservatives could have some reasonable alternative to the Liberals that might actually be able to win a federal election? The party that survived not scrapping the GST will have no problem surviving a broken promise to call an election after Gomery. If the Tories can’t manage in this minority government situation to be a more effective opposition, when could they? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/55 "2005-07-10T02:24:37Z")
The Globe and Mail is reporting that Chuck Cadman, independent MP for Surrey North, has died of cancer. [(story)](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050709.wcadma0709/BNStory/National/) Too bad. He seemed a standup guy who was genuinely concerned with representing his constituents. Not to mention that he made federal politics just a little more interesting. The history of the riding suggests that the Tories will likely pick up the seat in the eventual byelection. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/56 "2005-07-10T19:37:32Z")
> [@serious lark](#): > > Could the fiscal conservative politicos and the social conservative politicos please stop trying to share the same space, so that we fed up federalist fiscal conservatives could have some reasonable alternative to the Liberals that might actually be able to win a federal election? Well, they pretty much have to “share the same space,” don’t they, if they want any chance of getting into Parliament under the existing system? See this thread: “Will Canada ever change to proportional representation?” [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=322402](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=322402) ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/57 "2005-07-11T03:04:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, they pretty much have to “share the same space,” don’t they, if they want any chance of getting into Parliament under the existing system? See this thread: “Will Canada ever change to proportional representation?” [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=322402](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=322402) I don’t see why. I’m sure there are a number of Liberals who are actually fiscal conservatives who stick with that party because they don’t like the religious nut jobs in the conservative party. Same with voters. If we could remove religious wackos and get a party who said something like everyone is equal and we don’t care what you do in your bedroom and we’ll provide an acceptable level of health care, education, social services, etc, but we aren’t your mother so get off your ass and get to work, I think you’d have a party that would have quite a good chance of forming a government. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/58 "2005-07-11T04:01:02Z")
What **Uzi** said. The problem with Canadian politics now is that the traditional Liberal/PC left of centre/right of centre split has been replaced with a setup that has the Liberals squarely in the centre, the NDP on the left, and the new Conservatives on the right (the Bloq is pretty much in the same space as the NDP for Quebec). This leaves the majority of Canadians with nobody but the Liberals to vote for in their historically preferred centrist spot. The Conservatives have to lose the wacko element and come up with a better election platform than “We aren’t the Liberals”. Even the Liberal corruption bit won’t take them very far with voters like myself, who remember back to the previous Conservative/Liberal/Conservative/etc. governments’ regular scandal meltdowns and see the corruption as having little to do with the party affiliation and a lot to do with them being politicians. Not to say that the Libs don’t need a good bitch slapping right now, but a lot of voters will hold their noses and vote Liberal rather than risk the Conservatives being able to actually impliment some of their more repugnant policies. ---
**Author:** ![zega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@zega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zega)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738/59 "2005-07-11T04:38:46Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Really, I don’t mind my previous impressions being proved right, but this “completely disconnected from anything resembling this reality” thing is really getting old. This is the Conservatives taking a page from the Republican handbook. Which is part of what makes the Conservatives so scary to so many Canadians. Although their policy choices could easily take care of that on its own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-politics-what-a-difference-a-month-makes/308738.md?page=2)