# Canadians and doughnuts
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 9, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165 "2010-07-09T23:13:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/41 "2010-07-10T15:35:48Z")
> [@Sunspace](#):
>
> If the Canadian Krispy Kreme experience is any guide, they’ll enter in a blaze of publicity with one outlet that will be jammed by crowds, then they’ll expand, then the fad will wear off, business will drop dramatically, and they’ll close.
Interesting. So it ain’t just Chicago. Wonder where else they’ve experienced this.
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### Author:  [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/42 "2010-07-10T15:47:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> Interesting. So it ain’t just Chicago. Wonder where else they’ve experienced this.
Hmm, I haven’t been back to the Detroit area much in the last few years… wonder if the Krispy Kremes around there are still open.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/43 "2010-07-10T16:02:45Z")
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> Interesting. So it ain’t just Chicago. Wonder where else they’ve experienced this.
The same thing happened in Calgary. Funnily enough, there’s a Tim Hortons there now where a Krispy Kreme stood for a short time.
I think you might be on the wrong trail with Tim Hortons and doughnuts - as far as I can tell, not being a coffee drinker, it’s all about the coffee. The doughnuts are just for bringing in to work on Fridays. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/44 "2010-07-10T16:16:46Z")
So, going back to my query, other than the existence of a large doughnut chain in Canada, there is no sociological speculation why it is so pervasive within its culture?
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/45 "2010-07-10T16:24:13Z")
I always thought doughnuts were a quintessentially American obsession. Surprised to hear Canada surmised as beating us.
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### Author:  [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/46 "2010-07-10T16:33:13Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#):
>
> Also, my understanding is that commerces’ names are not subject to the dispositions of bill 101, so if Tim Hortons changed their name I’d wager it’s not because they had to, but because they thought they did (or should).
> [@Sunspace](#):
>
> But it’s “Tim Hortons” in Ontario as well.
I read an article on Tim Hortons a couple of years ago and it had an explanation…I can’t find that, but I looked at [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hortons) and it has pretty much the same explanation as what I remember reading in the article:
“The company had removed the apostrophe after signs using the apostrophe were considered to be breaking the language sign laws of the Province of Quebec. The removal of the apostrophe allowed the company to have one common sign image across Canada.”
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### Author:  [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/47 "2010-07-10T16:33:51Z")
> [@antonio107](#):
>
> Jacques Villeneuve tried opening a bistro called “Newtown” somewhere in Quebec - it’s a literal translation of his last name that was apparently his nickname on the F1 circuit. It drew the ire of the language police (which is why I heard it on the news), so I wouldn’t be surprised if Timmy’s got a letter from someone.
You may be right (according to [this](http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/charte/questions_freq/rep_33.html), though I cannot find it in the English FAQ), but OTOH there doesn’t seem to be any problem with names like Wal-Mart and Burger King.
> [@antonio107](#):
>
> How does that make more sense? 😕
I think the idea is that Quebec has laws that differ from the other Canadian provinces’, so the legal requirements for customer fidelisation programs may not be the same. It’s certainly legal all the same, but a business may find it too much of a hassle to create programs that are legal across several different jurisdictions.
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### Author:  [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/48 "2010-07-10T16:35:55Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#):
>
> I think you might be on the wrong trail with Tim Hortons and doughnuts - as far as I can tell, not being a coffee drinker, it’s all about the coffee. The doughnuts are just for bringing in to work on Fridays. 🙂
I wasn’t impressed with their donuts, but every time I go to Canada, my first stop is Tim Hortons for a cup of coffee. It’s the best coffee I’ve ever had. I had some Canadian friends mail me a can of Tim Hortons coffee a few years ago and I could not duplicate it in my home coffee maker. It’s not only the coffee, but the way they brew it. There’s some proprietary trick to it.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/49 "2010-07-10T16:41:46Z")
Most of us just assume it’s the crack they put in it. 😃
Seriously, the line-ups for a cup of coffee! You can’t swing a cat without hitting a place to buy coffee, but people will line-up for Tims coffee every day.
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### Author:  [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/50 "2010-07-10T16:50:36Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#):
>
> Detroit is an interesting meeting point between all of the big chains. Dunkin Donuts and Tim Hortons are all pretty common, and Krispy Kreme recently started opening a number of locations. Plus there’s a good smattering of small ma-and-pa donut shops and bakeries.
Buffalo is somewhat infamous for lacking chains that have a presence in most similarly-sized metropolitan areas. Still, there’s about 100 Tim Hortons in the area, according to their web site, and more are under construction. As with DD in Boston, along most major streets in the Buffalo area, there will be one or two Tim’s every mile or so. The Buffalo market is saturated with Tim’s no less than any city in Canada.
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/51 "2010-07-10T16:52:37Z")
> [@elmwood](#):
>
> Buffalo is somewhat infamous for lacking chains that have a presence in most similarly-sized metropolitan areas. Still, there’s about 100 Tim Hortons in the area, according to their web site, and more are under construction. As with DD in Boston, along most major streets in the Buffalo area, there will be one or two Tim’s every mile or so. The Buffalo market is saturated with Tim’s no less than any city in Canada.
Almost like they’re preparing to welcome the invasion forces.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/52 "2010-07-10T17:21:38Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#):
>
> So, going back to my query, other than the existence of a large doughnut chain in Canada, there is no sociological speculation why it is so pervasive within its culture?
Seriously, my speculation is that high calorie warm greasy food, like doughnuts and poutine, are more likely to become cultural icons in a colder weather higher physical activity country.
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/53 "2010-07-10T17:49:45Z")
> [@antonio107](#):
>
> Jacques Villeneuve tried opening a bistro called “Newtown” somewhere in Quebec - it’s a literal translation of his last name that was apparently his nickname on the F1 circuit. It drew the ire of the language police (which is why I heard it on the news), so I wouldn’t be surprised if Timmy’s got a letter from someone.
Newtown exists, on Crescent Street in downtown Montreal. Some people may have bitched about it (someone always does), but it isn’t in violation of any language laws. The Office québecois de la langue française does investigate complaints of this nature, but the fact is anyone can make a complaint, so while it often makes the news, it doesn’t mean there actually was an issue.
I remember a story once years ago about a complaint that a pet store’s _parrot_ only greeted customers in English. The English-language media likes to write stories about these things and the ROC gets all riled up about the ridiculous language laws, but there is very rarely any law actually being broken.
Tim Hortons, Eatons and other stores often choose to drop apostrophes and unify their signage not because they are in violation of any laws, but because it allows for lower costs and unified marketing in both English and French regions. McDonald’s has kept the apostrophe, while [Wendy](http://www.wendys.com/fr-ca/)’s got creative and simply replaced it with a maple leaf.
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### Author:  [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/54 "2010-07-10T17:54:13Z")
> [@elmwood](#):
>
> Buffalo is somewhat infamous for lacking chains that have a presence in most similarly-sized metropolitan areas. Still, there’s about 100 Tim Hortons in the area, according to their web site, and more are under construction. As with DD in Boston, along most major streets in the Buffalo area, there will be one or two Tim’s every mile or so. The Buffalo market is saturated with Tim’s no less than any city in Canada.
Tim Horton played for the Buffalo Sabres.
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### Author:  [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/55 "2010-07-10T18:14:13Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#):
>
> Newtown exists, on Crescent Street in downtown Montreal. Some people may have bitched about it (someone always does), but it isn’t in violation of any language laws. The Office québecois de la langue française does investigate complaints of this nature, but the fact is anyone can make a complaint, so while it often makes the news, it doesn’t mean there actually was an issue.
This seems likely. The OQLF only responds to citizen complaints (i.e. there is no “language police”), and probably has to investigate when there is a complaint, but some vigilante groups make complaints about businesses that aren’t even close to where they live, and sometimes aren’t even violating the letter, let alone the spirit, of the law. But then the investigation makes the news, especially in English-language media.
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### Author:  [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/56 "2010-07-10T19:12:41Z")
> [@hogarth](#):
>
> Because Quebec uses civil law, not common law.
>
> Usually “offer valid except in Quebec” is for sweepstakes and contests, though.
Civil law has nothing to do with “not valid in Quebec” offers, though. It has to do with a provincial law for contests (including lotteries and sweepstakes) that requires licensing and higher standards of transparency than the other provinces. Quebec is usually ahead of the other provinces in consumer protection rules; it is the only province that has enforced federal and provincial usary laws against “pay-day loan” companies, for instance. The other provinces eventually got down to negotiating with the industry, but it was a non-issue in Quebec.
[/hijack]
It would interesting to see whether the apparent Canadian obsession with donuts preceeds the spread of chains like Tim Hortons, Coffee Time and Country Style (the latter two are Toronto-area and Ontario-focused chains, respectively).
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### Author:  [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/57 "2010-07-10T19:27:15Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#):
>
> (Now that Hortons is omnipresent here, I wonder how they managed to gain such a foothold - their dough noughts are subsubsubstandard.
I was going to say something similar. We have quite a few Tim Horton’s in Michigan, and I really don’t like their donuts. Well, compared to other donuts anyway, they aren’t gross or inedible or anything, just kinda flavorless and meh.
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### Author:  [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/58 "2010-07-10T19:36:56Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> I always thought doughnuts were a quintessentially American obsession. Surprised to hear Canada surmised as beating us.
I still associate them with the cops. I don’t see this Canadian obsession everyone else does, and it seems to me that Tim Hortons is only brought up as Canadiana in the media in an ironic way, mocking - or at least referencing - a stereotype that doesn’t really apply.
Other than that they’re just doughnuts, and Tim Hortons is just a successful junk-food franchise. With pretty good coffee.
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/59 "2010-07-10T20:35:40Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#):
>
> Yes, I am California born-and-raised and didn’t experience Dunkin until I visited New York in my 30s. Out here, we had Winchell’s (which is mostly long gone now). Others would argue that Krispy Kreme is just as large but I believe that to be a mid-west giant as we didn’t get them on the West until the early 1990s, during their growth boom.
>
> I suppose I am also looking at a cultural phenomenon which would correlate to cupcakes making a huge rise because of _Sex in the City_, but why and how did doughnuts become so culturally ingrained into Canadian culture? Could that have happened simply through the existence of a predominant chain like Hortons?
The amazing thing about California (and perhaps some nearby states) compared to the rest of the country is that between the time of the demise of Winchell’s and the coming of Krispy Kreme to the area, there were NO big donut chains in the state at all. Just about every donut shop was a single Mom & Pop type store.
In fact, I think in my area (SF Bay Area), Mom & Pop donut shops still vastly outnumber the chains.
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### Author:  [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadians-and-doughnuts/546165/60 "2010-07-10T20:58:49Z")
> [@suranyi](#):
>
> In fact, I think in my area (SF Bay Area), Mom & Pop donut shops still vastly outnumber the chains.
Yes, I am also in the Bay Area and have been researching this. They are predominantly owned and operated by Cambodians. I learned about this in the book, [Buddha Is Hiding: Refugees, Citizenship, the New American.](http://www.amazon.com/Buddha-Hiding-Refugees-Citizenship-Anthropology/dp/0520238249/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278795382&sr=1-1)
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