# Canadope Café 2018: Chatting Around the Campfire **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666 "2018-01-01T01:05:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/101 "2018-03-11T05:58:51Z")
I…I guess I’ll never understand Ontarians. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/102 "2018-03-11T07:22:14Z")
The discussion of the Bloc’s troubles with their new leader illustrate one of my personal maxims for parties in a parliamentary system: party members should never choose a leader who doesn’t start with some substantial support from caucus. Leaders who haven’t worked their way up through elections and don’t know their caucus tend to fail, because they don’t have the personal relationships and support within the caucus to weather bad times. Alison Redford of Alberta was a major example: she was the compromise candidate between two different factions of the Alberta PC party, and went into the leadership race with precisely one MLA supporting her. When a crisis came, both the factions in the party turned on her and she was out. I grant that Mulroney was an exception to this thèses, but by and large a party leader needs to have caucus support. Jeremy Corbin is another example of a leader elected without caucus support. He seems to be winning the leadership issue internally by re-making the party structure in his favour, but it’s a long hard slog that is not doing much for Labour Party unity. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/103 "2018-03-11T07:26:27Z")
As for Ontario: Mike Harris broke the old centrist model of the PCs and pulled it permanently rightward. Ford is just the latest example of Harris’ long-term influence on the party. My take (from away, of course) is that Patrick Brown seemed to be trying to move back towards the centrism that used to mark the Ontario PCs, and that contributed to the party turning on him when he stumbled. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/104 "2018-03-11T09:19:47Z")
‘When he stumbled”, is an interesting turn of phrase for what overtook Patrick Brown, in my opinion. Tripped and fell right into sexually harassing the women around him! Poor lad, should watch his footing more carefully! ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/105 "2018-03-11T09:21:24Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Seriously, Ontario? WTF? What is this post in reference to? I mean, a little context would really help. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/106 "2018-03-11T09:57:37Z")
An interesting item from the _Globe and Mail_ about their Beijing bureau. I had always known that they had one, but how it came to be (and continued to exist through the Cultural Revolution) is something to be read. Here it is: > **[Dateline Peking](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/dateline-peking/article4304225/)** > > Fifty years ago, The Globe and Mail became the first Western newspaper to open a bureau in what was then known as Red China. Beijing correspondent Mark MacKinnon reflects on what's changed since then and what hasn't. I do recall how the Globe was the only outlet to the West for Anthony Grey, Reuters journalist, and captive of the Chinese government (see _Hostage in Peking_, which I read when it was published). Still, it makes you wonder. Why couldn’t American news sources such as the NYT and Washington Post establish Beijing bureaus? How did Canada’s Globe and Mail get so lucky? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/107 "2018-03-11T13:25:46Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What is this post in reference to? I mean, a little context would really help. Thanks! Doug Ford has won the leadership of the Ontario PC party, and is overwhelmingly likely to become Ontario’s next premier. Fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/108 "2018-03-11T19:51:27Z")
As a lifetime supporter of the Ontario PCs I may have to rethink my voting strategy. Now, I know Doug isn’t Rob, but still… I guess I’m willing to give him a fair shake, and of course he’s not my local MPP, but still… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/109 "2018-03-11T21:05:41Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > ‘When he stumbled”, is an interesting turn of phrase for what overtook Patrick Brown, in my opinion. > > Tripped and fell right into sexually harassing the women around him! Poor lad, should watch his footing more carefully! Given the doubts that have been raised about the accuracy of CTV’s reports, I think the jury is still out. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/110 "2018-03-11T22:02:53Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > As a lifetime supporter of the Ontario PCs I may have to rethink my voting strategy. > > Now, I know Doug isn’t Rob, but still… > > I guess I’m willing to give him a fair shake, and of course he’s not my local MPP, but still… Doug Ford is the only reason that I would vote for Patrick Brown, assuming that he is still the conservative MPP for this riding. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/111 "2018-03-11T22:44:13Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > An interesting item from the _Globe and Mail_ about their Beijing bureau. I had always known that they had one, but how it came to be (and continued to exist through the Cultural Revolution) is something to be read. Here it is: > > [Dateline Peking - The Globe and Mail](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/dateline-peking/article4304225/) > > I do recall how the Globe was the only outlet to the West for Anthony Grey, Reuters journalist, and captive of the Chinese government (see _Hostage in Peking_, which I read when it was published). > > Still, it makes you wonder. Why couldn’t American news sources such as the NYT and Washington Post establish Beijing bureaus? How did Canada’s Globe and Mail get so lucky? I’m guessing the influence of [Norman Bethune](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Bethune) probably had a lot to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/112 "2018-03-11T22:49:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m guessing the influence of Norman Bethune probably had a lot to do with it. That was my exact first thought too! ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/113 "2018-03-12T00:25:44Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > As a lifetime supporter of the Ontario PCs I may have to rethink my voting strategy. > > Now, I know Doug isn’t Rob, but still… > > I guess I’m willing to give him a fair shake, and of course he’s not my local MPP, but still… As I’m not an Ontario voter my opinion isn’t terribly relevant, but I’d have thought that Doug Ford has had all the shakes (fair and otherwise) that are necessary to form an opinion about him. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/114 "2018-03-12T00:27:27Z")
I can’t see why Mao would let the imperialist running dog lackeys of the American media into his country. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/115 "2018-03-12T01:45:38Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Doug Ford has won the leadership of the Ontario PC party, and is overwhelmingly likely to become Ontario’s next premier. I Googled around a bit for Ford vs. Wynne vs. Horwath polls, but I gave up after a couple of minutes. Do you know where I can find some data? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/116 "2018-03-12T02:17:59Z")
When Brad Gushue is in control of the game, it is generally very boring. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/117 "2018-03-12T04:51:52Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > I’m guessing the influence of [Norman Bethune](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Bethune) probably had a lot to do with it. It is entirely possible that China held Canada in high regard in those days, thanks to Dr. Bethune. But if that’s the case, then why would China allow a privately-run, for-profit, Canadian capitalist media enterprise (which pretty much only served Toronto in those days) to establish a bureau? Doesn’t such a thing go against the principles of Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism? The CBC, I could understand–it is government-run, and country-wide. But the _Globe and Mail_? Like I said, it was a private enterprise that pretty much only served Toronto in those days. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/118 "2018-03-12T12:10:19Z")
Not quite sure why you believe the G&M effectively only served Toronto, at that time. I think that’s mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/119 "2018-03-12T12:25:02Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Doug Ford has won the leadership of the Ontario PC party, and is overwhelmingly likely to become Ontario’s next premier. I’m going to object to “overwhelmingly likely.” You are underestimating the Liberals’ chances. > [@Leaffan](#): > > I guess I’m willing to give him a fair shake, and of course he’s not my local MPP, but still… I’m with Gorsnak on this one; Ford is not some unknown. He is very well known, and he is a liar, a regressive jerk, and a bigot who has not a single intelligent policy idea. I would not vote for him in a million years. The most important political issue today in the Western world is the re-emergence of fascism. No responsible voter should ever vote for a wannabe fascist, for any reason, or anyone who even resembles one. Ford’s a wannabe fascist. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666/120 "2018-03-12T13:18:40Z")
I just checked, and Kathleen Wynne’s birthday isn’t till May. Odd. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadope-cafe-2018-chatting-around-the-campfire/805666.md?page=7)