# Canadopers: fall federal election\[!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 12, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485 "2021-08-12T01:53:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/504 "2021-09-21T12:56:19Z")
I don’t disagree with your opinion of the Bloc, but they only receive about a third of the vote in Quebec. The part of your post I disagree with is throwing out the other 2/3 of Quebecois votes and then trying to draw some sort of conclusion based on that. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding - you said in the post I replied to “if you exclude Quebec it does odd things to the results” - did you instead mean “if you exclude the Bloc Quebecois”? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/505 "2021-09-21T13:26:00Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > ~40% is a large slice of the electorate to not have access to power. I’m not sure I understand this complaint. In every election, there’s a large chunk of voters who don’t “have access to power”, that’s just how voting works. If you mean to suggest that this 40% will _never_ have access to power, well, that’s just wrong as well. Hell, “They won a majority with only 40% of the vote!” is the main argument against our current electoral system. The problem for the current crop of Conservatives is that they get that 40% by getting huge wins in the western provinces, while losing most of Quebec and Ontario. If they reworked their platform to appeal more to central Canada, they’d lose some western support, but still win the seats anyways, while probably picking up some seats in Ontario and Quebec, giving them the overall win. That the current party has gone out of their way to _not_ do exactly this is their problem, frankly. I used to be one of those Ontario voters that helped them win seats in Ontario, but they’ve spent 15 years now pushing me farther and farther away. And I don’t see that changing any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/506 "2021-09-21T14:12:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It would appear that they will actually get FEWER votes than the Conservatives, and getting less than a third of the votes and fewer than another party isn’t really a “yes.” I think @Latimera answered this very well in post #490. I have a slightly different take on it. There’s more than one way to interpret this. As a personal referendum on Trudeau, was it a rejection? Maybe, but most pundits are saying no, because O’Toole’s goal was to capitalize on Trudeau’s alleged unpopularity and form the next government. He failed, and indeed, we are hearing rumblings about O’Toole’s continued viability as party leader. But what is most significant and heartening to me is that the combined Liberal and NDP results, by any measure, show a strong support for progressivism in this country. This is not just abstract; it’s quite likely the Liberals and NDP will function as a sort of informal coalition on many issues. The Conservative Party stands pretty much alone; its only natural ally is arguably perhaps the PPC, a bunch of loons that nobody voted for. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/507 "2021-09-21T14:19:27Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > So? The Conservatives got more popular votes than the Liberals. But the conservative parties (Conservatives + PPC) got a total of 39.2% of the popular vote So, my point is that one cannot reasonably say that a majority of Canadians thought the Liberal government deserved another mandate. That’s what I was replying to. > [@wolfpup](#): > > But what is most significant and heartening to me is that the combined Liberal and NDP results, by any measure, show a strong support for progressivism in this country. The Liberal Party is not especially progressive at all. The NDP certainly is, and they are the junior partner there. The Liberals are the centrist party, not the progressive one. The party to the right (albeit not far right) of the centrist party got far more votes than the party to the left (albeit not far left) of the centrist party. Your interpretation may be a little coloured by your own preferences here. Of course, both the Liberals and Conservatives have a fairly extensive history of adopting the ideology of “Get elected,” at least in the last few decades, as opposed to being particularly progressive or conservative. What was the last time either party really staked out a genuine, risky position? Free trade in 1988, I guess. The NDP, to their credit, try to hold to an ideology. They’re actually progressive. > [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > I admit that I am pretty damn happy I was correct on the PPC seat count. Max was soundly trounced in his own riding. I didn’t think for an instant the PPC had a hope in hell of winning a seat. What is concerning to me is that about 1 in 20 Canadians who bothered to vote voted for them. They might well be on the debate stage next time. That is not good, and the next election is very likely to be contested in the rubble of the worst recession in decades, which is a great time for populists to rile up support. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/508 "2021-09-21T14:19:57Z")
This had to be the most underwhelming and uninspiring election in which I’ve ever voted. My riding is reliably Liberal, and the Grits won with something like 58% of the vote. There was a fair bit of O’Toole the boogyman in my FB feed, and while I had a lot of serious qualms about him (“Take Canada Back” and having Canada Proud and Boris Johnson-connected consultants), on a personal level I wasn’t as worried as I was a couple of years ago with Scheer. I don’t really feel that, Proud Boys and Wexit nutters aside, Canada’s veering in a totally Trumpian direction. We do have an ever-widening urban/rural cultural split happening though, that if not addressed, could lead to the kind of crazy polarization we see down south. I live in Toronto, and I’ve noticed that many, many people I know who’ve moved away from the city or are already living there (further way than just a bedroom community…I mean small town, Red Green region but not arctic north) have banked seriously to the right. Like “Trudeau is just like Hitler!!!” in their Facebook posts right. Once their phone number begins with something other than (905), the Ford Nation mentality tends to kick in. As long as members of certain generations give up city life (and it’s a chicken-or-egg thing for why they go) we’re going to see that split widen further, and the Fraser Institute, privatize-everything, tie ourselves to the oilsands crowd will be ascendent. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/509 "2021-09-21T16:10:34Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > e with your opinion of the Bloc, but they only receive about a third of the vote in Quebec. The part of your post I disagree with is throwing out the other 2/3 of Quebecois votes and then trying to draw some sort of conclusion based on that. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding - you said in the post I replied to “if you exclude Quebec it does odd things to the results” - did you instead mean “if you exclude the Bloc Well if you’re in Quebec, do you vote for the separatists or the federalists? That’s the baseline choice with the bloc. Which is a completely different dynamic than in the rest of the country. That’s why I took a look at ROC numbers to see if anything interesting popped up. @Horatius I’ve just done the same for AB - ignore it completely. The Conservatives do drop by only from 34% to 31%. So while the 34 odd seats in Alberta are secure they have 40% of their voters in Ontario and 20% in Alberta. Same with BC coming in with 13%. It boggles my mind why they continue to lash themselves to the Alberta mast. My point about being out of powers is really just this. If a Liberal government forms a small slice of Conservative policy will make it in. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/510 "2021-09-21T17:10:38Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But what is most significant and heartening to me is that the combined Liberal and NDP results, by any measure, show a strong support for progressivism in this country. This is not just abstract; it’s quite likely the Liberals and NDP will function as a sort of informal coalition on many issues. The Conservative Party stands pretty much alone; its only natural ally is arguably perhaps the PPC, a bunch of loons that nobody voted for. This sums up my feelings perfectly. I’m curious to see what the Conservatives do now to try and gain more seats. In a number of ridings the Conservatives lost in part because the PPC took enough votes to give the Liberals or NDP the win. But if the Conservatives court the hardcore pseudotrumpists to regain those lost votes they risk losing mainstream support. On the other hand, if they shift left to gain mainstream support, they risk losing core support, especially from Alberta. Either way, I’m confident O’Tool won’t be the Conservative leader for the next election. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/511 "2021-09-21T17:16:10Z")
Not to sidetrack this interesting discussion but there are proportional representative systems and then there are proportional representative systems. PR systems like Israel’s may indeed give your crazy party 5% of the seats if they won 5% of the national vote but other systems, like Denmark’s and our own proposed Fair Representation Act, function much differently and require much more support to win seats in any given voting district. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/512 "2021-09-21T17:19:05Z")
Well said. Interestingly I didn’t really see much “O’Toole the boogyman” stuff this time. I don’t think the Liberals campaigned all that hard where I live as they expected to win easily, which they did. A couple of days before the election my wife and sons all started getting texts promoting the Conservatives that were basically “we hate Trudeau and you should too…because reasons!” My teenage sons found them funny. On a further personal note, I am very pleased at the Liberal gains over the Conservatives in Metro Vancouver. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/513 "2021-09-21T17:20:25Z")
this is an important distinction, and it does point to the difficulty of electoral reform: there are many models to choose from, the advantages and disadvantages are not always apparent, and most of the advocates of the different systems plump for the system that best suits their partisan needs. I think any discussion of electoral reform needs to start with a discussion over “what do we want the system to do? Why doesn’t the present system do that? What system might?” Without that discussion, it’s round and round the mulberry bush and then down the rabbit hole ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/514 "2021-09-21T17:24:14Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > On the other hand, if they shift left to gain mainstream support, they risk losing core support, especially from Alberta. I’m no expert, but it seems obvious that they should shift left, at least if we’re talking about a pure political move. There are so many ridings in Alberta and Saskatchewan where the Conservatives are winning by huge margins, so making it their priority to protect those huge leads seems like a losing strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/515 "2021-09-21T17:49:03Z")
Yes, too many arguments focus on “this will help/hurt Liberals/Conservatives/Democrats/Republicans” without debating instead how it might help governments best represent their electorates. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/516 "2021-09-21T17:50:13Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > I’m curious to see what the Conservatives do now to try and gain more seats. If history is anything to go by, they will hate Trudeau even more, and try to convince everyone else to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/517 "2021-09-21T18:00:04Z")
LOL! True that… ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/518 "2021-09-21T18:48:40Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I’m no expert, but it seems obvious that they should shift left, at least if we’re talking about a pure political move. There are so many ridings in Alberta and Saskatchewan where the Conservatives are winning by huge margins, so making it their priority to protect those huge leads seems like a losing strategy. It’s not obvious they need to move left - there are plenty of right leaning solutions to policy issues in Canada that can be appealing. The Carbon Tax is actually a prime example. The problem is the current Conservative party has done it’s damnedest to focus on issues that only affect it’s core constituents instead of the public at large. They should go hard on addressing climate, productivity, tax rates, labour fairness, and affordability but they’re now known as the climate change denying, Trudeau hating, oil sands party. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/519 "2021-09-21T18:52:24Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > They should go hard on addressing climate, productivity, tax rates, labour fairness, and affordability As a “leftie”, I would really appreciate a Conservative party that would focus on these. They are important issues that really resonate. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/520 "2021-09-21T18:57:20Z")
I thought it was interesting that in the past week I saw graffiti for the White Rose (“What were you doing when the government took away the people’s rights, daddy?” “I was hiding behind a sofa and dismissing people’s views as conspiracy theories.”) and for the Shining Path (“Defend the life of Chairman Gonzalo!”). ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/521 "2021-09-21T19:00:23Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > It’s not obvious they need to move left I guess I didn’t mean “left” specifically, but rather away from concentrating on their base. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/522 "2021-09-21T19:30:39Z")
Well, that was a waste of time and money. I am happy enough with the result. A Liberal government that needs NDP support. The only ads I saw from the Conservatives was how you can’t trust Trudeau. And the same ad repeated 17 times during a baseball game is not going to work better than once. Not a word about why I should want the ban on assault rifles rescinded. Nor why I should want the carbon tax repealed. If the Cons moved left they would become the old Progressive Conservative party, which would defeat their raison d’etre. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/523 "2021-09-21T20:38:15Z")
These days I actually miss the old Progressive Conservative party. Don’t miss Brian Mulroney mind you… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485.md?page=27)