# Canadopers: fall federal election\[!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 12, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485 "2021-08-12T01:53:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![PozhanPop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pozhanpop/32/8022_2.png) [@PozhanPop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PozhanPop)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/102 "2021-08-19T23:37:10Z")
Of course , the ’ lot’ are Albertans. Ii should have said that. I don’t follow politics in general but was just curious to know if she had a national presence. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/103 "2021-08-20T12:02:49Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > The problem, of course, is no party that wins under FPTP, and especially a majority is going to want to change the FPTP system that got them elected. If only we could find politicians that cared about what was good for the country, and not their personal power. I don’t know about that, though. Certainly the parties that routinely win under this system are less inclined to change things, but what about the NDP? They looked to have a surprise shot to actually win back in 2015, and had that happened, I could see them changing the system, with the understanding that this win was a fluke, unlikely to be repeated. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/104 "2021-08-20T17:06:22Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > The Conservatived seem to have done okay in Nova Scotia. Note that that is the Progressive Conservative party, just like the old Tory party. The current Conservative party has entirely different roots. I doubt that Brian Mulronely would have put a creationist as science minister. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/105 "2021-08-20T20:05:03Z")
That seems unlikely. I agree the Nova Scotia result says little about the national race. But why was the polling so off, and why is no one talking about that? (Instead, just registering “surprise”). I mean, they were off by a couple dozen percent, no? I also do not agree the Conservatives made a gaffe when discussing the conscience rights of doctors. No one was saying abortion is on the table or is not the prerogative of women, as it clearly is. Not even O’Toole. Child care is expensive and hard to access in Ontario. Although it is nice to see parties doing something about this, unless they expand capacity only some will benefit. This is better use of money than many things being discussed. No one is discussing the deficit or has meaningful plans to address it. Why make any choices for funding priorities? In five years, this might become a painful problem. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/106 "2021-08-20T21:00:27Z")
The debt could be a major problem _any time_. The first rule of financial crises is that they generally happen without warning. And Canada and the U.S. are both in unknown territory, printing money and sustaining deficits much larger than ever done before. We even surpassed WWII, and that was temporary and once it was over we scaled spending back dramatically. There’s no sign of that here. Inflation is already at 3.7%, and increasing. Our central bankers blew that prediction, as did the U.S., meaning they don’t really have a handle on what’s going on. I can’t emphasize enough how dangerous this is. One sign that we are heading for something bad is that the interventions requird to keep our financial balls in the air are getting increasingly large, like what you see in a control system before it fails. Our debt is at the point where using interest rates to slow inflation will bankrupt the country. And the markets are now so dependent on the continuance of low interest rates that they often go up on bad economic news, because that means interest rates might not go up. Markets are being increasingly disconnected from the real world and attached to central bank decisions. That should scare everyone. But not Trudeau. According to his own words, he really doesn’t pay attention to monetary policy. And our finance minister is a journalist who doesn’t know anything about it. I think they have convinced themselves that they can spend any amount of money and central bankers will just ‘manage’ it, or using Modern Monetary Theory they can inflate the dollar by printing money then control the inflation by taxing the wealthy to slow the economy. Apparently they have never heard of stagflation. There are a number of ways this could end. All of them involve significant economic pain for Canadians. And if inflation continues the people who will be hurt the most will be the ones Liberals claim to champion: The poor, the working class, and retirees. The asset owning class does fine under inflation. Everyone else, not so much. Printing and spending the kind of money the Liberals want to spend while inflation is already rising is crazy. It will make things worse. And this is a terrible time to be adding expensive new entitlements that we will have to pay for indefinitely while already drowning in debt. It’s completely irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/107 "2021-08-20T21:10:00Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Inflation is already at 3.7%, and increasing. Our central bankers blew that prediction, as did the U.S., meaning they don’t really have a handle on what’s going on. > > I can’t emphasize enough how dangerous this is The die is already cast; there is going to be a huge, huge recession in the next few years, and it’ll absolutely crush the housing bubble. Our current bubble was created my insanely low interest rates, which cannot continue with inflation higher than the mortgage rate. It’ll be like 2008-2009 and now there’s far less budget room to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/108 "2021-08-20T21:46:43Z")
The real question is the monthly inflation figure significant, or is it just a reflection of the price decrease for things like gas during the pandemic, coupled with shortages of chips, etc. > **[Canada Inflation Rate - December 2022 Data - 1915-2021 Historical - January...](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/inflation-cpi)** > > Canada’s annual inflation rate fell to 6.3% in December of 2022, the least since February 2022 and below market expectations of 6.4%, compared to the 6.8% in November and further declining from the 1983-high of 8.1% from June. Price growth fell... If you change the timescale to 5 years, you will see the impact of Covid on inflation. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/109 "2021-08-21T00:26:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The die is already cast; there is going to be a huge, huge recession in the next few years, and it’ll absolutely crush the housing bubble. Yeah, probably. Although another scenario is that the Bank of Canada will refuse to raise rates enough to squash inflation, preferring instead to inflate away the debt. That would essentially be a massive tax on money. As it is, we now have effectively -3.5% interest on deposits, and anyone with cash savings is losing that much of their money every year in purchasing power if this continues. In that scenario, where interest is lower than inflation, housing and other asset markets will boom because they will be hedges against inflation. That’s probably part of what’s driving asset bubbles right now. It will be the people who can’t afford assets who will be devastated. If the bank raises rates enough to fight inflation, then yeah it will trigger a deep recession and kill asset markets. But I don’t know how they can do thst with all the debt floating around out there. Not just government, but personal debt, student loans, corporate debt, municipal and provincial debt… Everyone has been borrowing like crazy because our betters told us that since rates are low everyone should borrow and spend. Apparently they assumed that rates would never go back up again. > [@](#): > > Our current bubble was created my insanely low interest rates, which cannot continue with inflation higher than the mortgage rate. It’ll be like 2008-2009 and now there’s far less budget room to deal with it. I liken it to a term in aviation called a ‘coffin corner’. The U2 spy plane coild climb to the point where if you increased speed by 5 knots you would suffer ‘mach tuck’ and die. If you slowed down by 5 knots you would stall. We have kept recessions at bay by increasingly pushing the economy into such a corner. We drove interest rates to zero, then when that did 't work we did ‘quantitative easing’. Then when we wanted even more money we just had the Bank of Canada print it. Now we are up to our eyeballs in debt and inflation is rising, but we have almost no tools left to fight. The central bank and politicians flew us into an economic coffin corner, and while there may be some way to unwind it without crashing the economy, I don’t think any of our leaders are up to the task. But the very first thing to do is to stop all the crazy, unneeded ‘stimulus’ spending. Trudeau has sent signals that he simply doesn’t care about any of this, and he’ll spend as much as he wants, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/110 "2021-08-21T00:55:28Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > The real question is the monthly inflation figure significant, or is it just a reflection of the price decrease for things like gas during the pandemic, coupled with shortages of chips, etc. There are several possible sources of inflation, three temporary and one permanent. The temporary ones are supply chain restrictions due to COVID driving prices up on certain goods (for example, new and used cars), another is the windfall of cash governments have been dropping on the people, driving up demand, and the third is high economic growth, driving up bidding for wages and goods. The permnent source of inflation is an increasing number of dollars chasing the same goods. This is generally due to loose monetary policy. The question is, how much of our current inflation is temporary? Some, no doubt. It’s complex and I wouldn’t trust anyone who says they know for sure. However… Here is a scary graph showing the balance sheet of the Bank of Canada and how their government bond purchases have diverged wildly from history in the last couple of years: > **[Bank of Canada assets and liabilities: Weekly (formerly B2)](https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/banking-and-financial-statistics/bank-of-canada-assets-and-liabilities-weekly-formerly-b2/)** > > Weekly Wednesday statement of assets and liabilities as required by the Bank of Canada Act. The figures for the last reference period are preliminary and are subject to revision. When governments are borrowing trillons, there is no one to borrow it from. So the banks buy up the bonds and give the money to the government - money they do not have but must simply track. Then the government spends it, inflating the money suppky. Here’s a chart of Canada’s money supply: > **[Monetary aggregates](https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/indicators/key-variables/monetary-aggregates/)** > > Data and definitions “Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon” -Milton Friedman Anothef good quote would be, “That which cannot go on forever - won’t.” The only question is what price we’ll pay when the Piper shows up. An even bettef quote would be TANSTAAFL - There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/111 "2021-08-21T00:57:51Z")
Now that we’ve proven to everyone’s satisfaction that capitalism is broken and cannot be fixed, let’s work on alternatives. This election is an opportunity to support parties and candidates pledged to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/112 "2021-08-21T01:58:42Z")
What are you talking about? Cpitalism worked fine through COVID. Amazingly well, considering the challenges. It’s government that has been flailing. What’s your replacement idea for Capitalism? Details, please. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/113 "2021-08-21T02:02:52Z")
You realize you’re addressing someone whose username references an anarcho-communist, right? Anyways, I’m also convinced that we’re all doomed, unless there’s a 1 month GST holiday which will surely turn the tide. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/114 "2021-08-21T02:22:19Z")
Gah. That GST holiday is the dumbest gimmick I’ve seen in some time. Are there any adults left in politics at all? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/115 "2021-08-21T03:06:35Z")
Scheer lunacy? ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/116 "2021-08-21T10:56:58Z")
[quote=“Sam\_Stone, post:114, topic:948485, full:true”] Gah. That GST holiday is the dumbest gimmick I’ve seen in some time.[/quote] I’ll grant you that. “GST holiday right before Christmas when discretionary spending is highest and I can defer purchases in November to take advantage, that will surely add to the economy!” ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/117 "2021-08-21T18:18:30Z")
In all honesty, I kind of wouldn’t mind an NDP win. I like Singh. Much more than Jack Layton. The NDP has good priorities on climate change, and social progress. Plus it would shake up the two party heir apparent system we have where the CPoC and Liberals really only take themselves seriously and view other parties only as a possible spoiler.I think a third viable party would help Canada. Plus an ascendant left might slap some sense into the CPoC leadership that their ways simply are not a winning strategy except in the west. I don’t think it will happen of course. The NDP will struggle to win federal seats in AB/SK, which means they need to win an awful lot of Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes. While I think a lot of people are like “Sigh. Trudeau.” I don’t think there’s enough of a “Anybody except O’Toole & Trudeau” sentiment. It is too bad. I’d like to have the NDP get a shot at leading. I think they’ve earned it. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/118 "2021-08-21T19:49:13Z")
Max Bernier and the PPC are not being invited to the debates: > **[People's Party Leader Maxime Bernier will not be in federal election debates...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-election-debate-decision-participant-leaders-1.6148751)** > > Leaders' Debates Commissioner David Johnston has confirmed that leaders of five political parties will be invited to participate in the upcoming election debates — but People's Party of Canada Leader Maxime Bernier is not among them. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/119 "2021-08-21T20:00:53Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Max Bernier and the PPC are not being invited to the debates: So, are we taking bets on how soon the “Law 'N Order” crowd will be complaining about applying the rules properly? ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/120 "2021-08-21T21:20:37Z")
Good one ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485/121 "2021-08-22T00:14:09Z")
I have a libertarian streak. Although the PPC is perhaps too vague for consideration, if a condition was they needed 4% I would have thought they had satisfied that. I’m sure the other parties were not anxious for their inclusion. I am by no means the Law and Order crowd, however. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadopers-fall-federal-election/948485.md?page=7)