# Cancel culture alive and well in Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 9, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707 "2021-05-09T17:26:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/61 "2021-05-11T15:15:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I think the long term effect of these ongoing disputes about free speech on campuses will, in the end, be the slow demise of the tenure system. Universities are awarding tenure less every year I believe. And with good reason. Tenure has been failing for a long time, not due to “free speech” issues but because like every other industry the post-secondary sector has become increasingly corporatized, with executive salaries skyrocketing while faculty are slowly being turned into a virtual temping pool filled with adjuncts working for [starvation wages](https://world.edu/starving-faculty-speak/). But that’s a subject for a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/62 "2021-05-11T15:56:29Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Imagine for a moment, how other things might go wildly off the rails if the actors were given guaranteed, untouchable ‘jobs for life’ Tenure does _not_ mean a guaranteed, untouchable job for life. It merely means instructors can’t be fired without cause. The fact there are fewer tenure-track positions is simply fiscal: non-tenure track positions pay little, and adjunct positions even less. This is despite soaring tuition costs, but that’s another subject for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/63 "2021-05-11T16:01:25Z")
Tenure, scmenure. Academic freedom, academic shmeedom. She has a job and she publicly embarrassed her employer. Everybody else gets fired for doing that, so should she. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/64 "2021-05-11T22:55:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Tenure, scmenure. Academic freedom, academic shmeedom. I still don’t get all the claims about academic freedom when she didn’t post any of this in her capacity as an academic. It’s her own blog, and she’s not even making an academic argument. Academic freedom means that you can explore your field without fear of reprisal. The goal is to make sure that unpopular ideas are not rejected out of hand, but actually studied. While I wouldn’t agree, I could see people arguing that this is just political speech that she did off-campus, while not on the job. But claiming it’s about academic freedom is saying she’s doing it in her position as a professor, and thus gives even more reason to believe the school should act. Not even those who support her seem to be able to separate this blog from her professor position. So why complain if the students can’t, either? It seems even her defenders assume this sort of stuff leaks out on campus. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/65 "2021-05-11T23:16:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And @k9bfriender has to agree with @Kimstu that posting in the third person alone should be enough to be fired. **Bo** hates when other people do that! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/66 "2021-05-12T08:20:22Z")
Bambi only pawn in game of life. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/67 "2021-05-12T19:35:11Z")
Bambi’s mother was killed by a hunter, and Bambi never got over that. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/68 "2021-05-12T19:54:25Z")
I’d be interested to hear a follow-up from @Hari_Seldon about reconciling his direct knowledge of her with the viewpoints in this thread. > [@BigT](#): > > I still don’t get all the claims about academic freedom when she didn’t post any of this in her capacity as an academic. It’s her own blog, and she’s not even making an academic argument. > > Academic freedom means that you can explore your field without fear of reprisal. The goal is to make sure that unpopular ideas are not rejected out of hand, but actually studied. > > While I wouldn’t agree, I could see people arguing that this is just political speech that she did off-campus, while not on the job. But claiming it’s about academic freedom is saying she’s doing it in her position as a professor, and thus gives even more reason to believe the school should act. > > Not even those who support her seem to be able to separate this blog from her professor position. So why complain if the students can’t, either? It seems even her defenders assume this sort of stuff leaks out on campus. I agree, this is not an issue of academic freedom, despite what Azar herself thinks. Rather, it seems to be another case of someone being disciplined at their work for something they said outside of work, as a personal citizen. I have come around to believe that the disagreement among the public in these situations is almost always about whether what was said meets the threshold of offense for the discipline to be warranted or not, as opposed to being purely about “the principle of free speech”. For example, I think if she said something like “the Holocaust didn’t happen, but if it did, it was because the Jews deserved it” on her blog, I don’t think anyone would disagree that she should be disciplined (probably fired). I think the vast majority of people, if not everyone, would think that a statement like “George Floyd was a criminal and deserved what he got” absolutely merits discipline. But I don’t personally agree that “BLM is to black New Brunswickers what Islamists are to Muslims” crosses that threshold. IMO, it’s a dumb statement and there are a number of silly posts on her blog, but nothing that I’ve read so far that crosses the threshold (I’ve only really skimmed through the few posts linked in this thread though). Criticizing BLM as an organization does not come across as inherently racist to me, any more than criticizing Greenpeace comes across as an attack to environmentalists in general. I disagree with her characterization of BLM but I don’t think racist intentions are the only explanation for her posts. > [@Riemann](#): > > The two possibilities seem to be that she’s either very stupid, or she’s an actual racist. And either possibility would seem to disqualify her from her job. See, I disagree that these are the only two possibilities - rather, I think smart people can write dumb things. Or, if you want to frame it differently, it should be OK for dumb people to be professors as long as they are competent in the field that they are teaching/researching. Just because she might post incoherent ramblings on a blog doesn’t mean that she is equally incoherent in her professional life. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/69 "2021-05-12T20:36:20Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > Just because she might post incoherent ramblings on a blog doesn’t mean that she is equally incoherent in her professional life. As I said, though, some of [the complaints that the university is investigating](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/mount-allison-suspension-professor-1.6016047) are about the professor’s using her public blog posts to lament and disparage various “woke” beliefs of students she’s taught, who are identified by name. Professionally speaking, I think that sort of behavior is a HUGE no-no for a faculty member. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/70 "2021-05-12T20:53:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > As I said, though, some of the complaints that the university is investigating are about the professor’s using her public blog posts to lament and disparage various “woke” beliefs of students she’s taught, who are identified by name. Professionally speaking, I think that sort of behavior is a HUGE no-no for a faculty member. I totally agree that would be very unprofessional and would merit discipline. I missed your post about her calling students out by name on her blog, but I read the Global News article that you linked earlier and didn’t see any reference to her doing that - did you find that from reading another source, or from reading more of her blog posts? I realize I haven’t read the posts that you linked in your previous posts, just the original ones in GreenWyvern’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/71 "2021-05-12T21:05:51Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > it should be OK for dumb people to be professors as long as they are competent in the field that they are teaching/researching Her field is “health psychology”. In any event, the problem is not that she’s dumb _per se_. It’s that she’s either a racist, or too dumb to grasp that her posts very much _appear_ to be racist. If she has any other valid point, she is unable to state it coherently. In my opinion, it’s not acceptable for someone to have a faculty position with teaching responsibilities if they reveal in any context that they do not respect the human dignity of all their students. Bigotry against a subset of one’s students does not fall under the umbrella of the free exchange of ideas in academic discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707/72 "2021-05-12T21:15:25Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > I missed your post about her calling students out by name on her blog, but I read the Global News article that you linked earlier and didn’t see any reference to her doing that - did you find that from reading another source, or from reading more of her blog posts? I’m sorry, I could have sworn I put this link in my most recent post, but now I can’t find it there either. Here it is, butt-naked just to make sure it’s visible: > **[Mount A suspends professor after investigation into complaints about blog |...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/mount-allison-suspension-professor-1.6016047)** > > A Mount Allison professor will not be teaching at the university for the fall term following an investigation into complaints that some posts on her personal blog were racist and discriminatory. Here’s the specific text I was referring to: > [@](#): > > [Mount Allison Student Union president Charlie] Burke said blog posts that condemned the Black Lives Matter group were among those concerns, as were incidents of “students who were taught by this professor being called out by name” in her blog. […] > > “At the end of the day, it is unprofessional to comment on students’ beliefs,” Burke said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-alive-and-well-in-canada/941707.md?page=3)