# Cancel Culture and Canceling versus consequences for actions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644 "2025-07-08T22:55:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/412 "2025-07-15T16:18:40Z")
> [@Frilly\_Heck](#): > > You fail to understand that that’s just a part of being human in society. Everyone has to watch what they say. You’re literally asking other people to watch every word they say forever so that you don’t have to do likewise. No I’m not. Different societies have very different standards on this. In some you could be sent to the gulag for a careless comment, in others executed for insulting someone of higher social standing. Western democracies used to espouse tolerance and free speech as values, and those are part of what made these countries so great. If we abandon those values, we will all be worse off. I’m not asking other people to watch what they say, I’m asking them to be more tolerant of others, both of mistakes and of differing beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Frilly\_Heck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90ced4/32.png) [@Frilly\_Heck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frilly_Heck)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/413 "2025-07-15T16:21:20Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Western democracies used to espouse tolerance and free speech as values, and those are part of what made these countries so great. If we abandon those values, we will all be worse off. Western democracies only did that for certain people. Not all of them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/414 "2025-07-15T16:23:28Z")
As the Supreme court said about the MAGA kid, and what other judges are telling Trump to stop using his power to, not only cancel others, but to arrest them and send them to gulags… I agree in part, but lets not forget that on the whole, the right is more, more, more wrong on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/415 "2025-07-15T16:26:23Z")
Yeah, we see things actually spiraling towards gulags now (and not implemented by the PC warriors of the left!), and certain people are still upset that they can’t freely diss trans folks without getting a little side-eye. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/416 "2025-07-15T16:26:38Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > That doesn’t mean it’s no big deal to demand people watch every word they say forever, though. It is, in fact, no big deal. That’s literally the baseline expectation for living in a society. You are always going have to be aware of where you are, who you’re talking to, and how your words might affect them. That’s not an unreasonable expectation, that’s being an adult. > [@DemonTree](#): > > My idea of a ‘safe space’ is one where I am accepted as myself and don’t have to be constantly paranoid about accidentally offending someone and suffering unpredictable consequences. The diametric opposite of the modern social justice conception of a safe space. No, that’s included in the modern social justice conception of a safe space. The problem is, you can’t make a place safe for everyone - sometimes making a safe place for one type of person implicitly makes it unsafe for another type. For a non-political example, a safe-space for people with autism, where they can spend time socializing without masking, is a great idea. As someone who is not autistic, I’d find that space profoundly uncomfortable, because I’d be surrounded by people who are making no attempt at the kind of non-verbal interactions that I rely on to know if someone is safe to be around. I’d have to constantly be careful about what I say, because even though my natural instinct might be to call out someone for being a jerk, I know that I’m in a space that was specifically curated for people with autism, and not _me_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/417 "2025-07-15T16:27:09Z")
Be more tolerant sounds great, broadly speaking. What, specifically, have I said that you believe conflicts with this sentiment? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/418 "2025-07-15T16:29:45Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Western democracies used to espouse tolerance and free speech as values, and those are part of what made these countries so great. If we abandon those values, we will all be worse off. Sure: Let’s not forget who the original antifascists were: > **[https://preview.redd.it/the-original-anti-fascists-normandy-1944-v0-ho1xql4kx51e...](https://preview.redd.it/the-original-anti-fascists-normandy-1944-v0-ho1xql4kx51e1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0929e063f95b9a82608b71237027a50069bcadc3)** ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/419 "2025-07-15T16:41:34Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > The hypothetical was about a _Nazi_. Not a MAGA lunatic. Yeah. But my point was that there are lots of people (some on this very board) who genuinely, honestly, and most sincerely believe that Trump voters _are_ Nazis, by definition. Those people are stupid and wrong, and when they call someone a Nazi we should demand a lot of proof. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/420 "2025-07-15T16:43:44Z")
As I touched on elsewhere, in our societies there has ALWAYS been some standard that you should pause about what you share and how you share it in public or in “polite company” or in specific spaces. Varying by time/place circumstance, but there has always been one. It has never been an absolute let it all hang out environment. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/422 "2025-07-15T16:53:42Z")
It was said that trump had a book with speeches from Hitler. Trump complained, he corrected other that it was actually Mein Kampf. Of course him being a dummkopf, he declared later to not read that either, but that is debatable. Looking at today, I more seriously see Trump as a **Nazi cosplayer.** That can become a more serious Nazi very quickly. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/us/politics/trump-immigrants-hitler-mein-kampf.html#:~:text=Former%20President%20Donald%20Trump%20has%20been%20criticized,were%20’destroying%20the%20blood%20of%20our%20country’"](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/us/politics/trump-immigrants-hitler-mein-kampf.html#:~:text=Former%20President%20Donald%20Trump%20has%20been%20criticized,were%20'destroying%20the%20blood%20of%20our%20country'%22). > The former president’s comments on migrants have been widely criticized as racist and xenophobic. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/423 "2025-07-15T16:55:31Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/15): > > The “well the right wing did it first in 50s to the left wing” argument I don’t accept. Nor the “well Trump does it” i don’t accept. “Well now it’s our turn”. I do not accept. > > It was wrong in the anti-communist era. It is wrong in the current era. Straw-man. Read it again, I even said in this thread that I did condemn what the extreme left did in those days. > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/15): > > You, yes you dear reader, you are not in charge of punishing fellow citizens for disagreeing with your political viewpoints. But Trump and his henchmen can with impunity? It has already been seen that on the left side of things it is not very effective and one can say that that is a good thing, still, nowadays; the courts did see a lot of gross exaggerations coming from the right in discussions like this one. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/425 "2025-07-15T17:05:37Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/16): > > I was referring to this post. And again, you can only said what you did by willfully ignoring that I did condemn what the extreme left in Russia and in China where doing then. As for your post here, it is noticeable that you ignore the cites I made before. Clearly, what Trump and henchmen are doing can’t be defended. And that is what is happening **now**. If the Democratic party was in power, this would not be happening. [https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article310625140.html](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article310625140.html) > **‘A black hole’: Attorneys say they still can’t reach clients in Alligator Alcatraz** ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/426 "2025-07-15T17:11:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > That’s actually a common tactic in the “cancel culture” community, mainly to avoid potential legal entanglements. > > Or we could take Chloe Dykstra at her word that that wasn’t her intent. I know, “believe women”, what a concept… I judge any claim on its merits and the credibility of the source. Given that an independent investigation commissioned by AMC in conjunction with a major law firm found that Dysktra tried to smear Hardwick with unsubstantiated accusations, I wouldn’t consider any of Dysktra’s claims to be credible. One wonders what the point was of publishing an article that, while not explicitly naming Hardwick, contained just enough information that he was immediately identified by the social media gossip circuit and his career canceled, albeit only temporarily. I sincerely hope we’re not actually living in a society where any statement that conveys the sentiment “the woman is lying” is instantly equated with misogyny. The ability to lie has no gender boundaries. ETA: My understanding from what I’ve read about the issues between Dysktra and Hardwick is that Hardwick was no saint in that relationship. But as often happens when tales get told and re-told again, major elements of hyperbole start to creep in, and before long, “acting like a jerk” becomes “sexual predator” in the emotionally elevated re-telling. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/427 "2025-07-15T17:16:30Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I’m not asking other people to watch what they say, I’m asking them to be more tolerant of others, both of mistakes and of differing beliefs. No, you are asking me not to mention that Joe the plumber said something gross and racist. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/429 "2025-07-15T17:23:17Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/17): > > Well what ya want me to do? Defend some stupid Trump alligator Alcatraz > > Strawman calling. It’s for you. Nope, that was directed at Trump and right wingers doing real cancellations, what you say here is just Piffle, What Trump did needs to be condemned. > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/17): > > What does Trumps Alligator Alcatraz have to do with the topic of this thread? > > Well Trump did a bad thing so it’s ok we do our canceling? Who is “we” Kimosabe? But I was ready for that, as I already mentioned what Trump is similarly doing with the cancellation of the speech of Palestinians. > **[Mahmoud Khalil Seeks to Challenge Government’s Retaliatory, Post-Facto...](https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/mahmoud-khalil-seeks-to-challenge-governments-retaliatory-post-facto-charges-against-him-in-federal-court)** > > The preliminary injunction motion argues that the government’s post-hoc charge against Mr. Khalil was retaliatory and violates the First Amendment > “The Trump administration’s baseless, after-the-fact charges against Mahmoud Khalil are nothing more than further retaliation for his outspoken advocacy for Palestinian human rights,” **said Amy Belsher, Director of Immigrants’ Rights Litigation at the NYCLU.** “These flimsy accusations only reveal the targeted nature of his arrest and the ongoing attempts to silence and remove him. It’s past time the government gave up its unlawful attacks on Mahmoud and his family.” > > “The government has gone to extraordinary and outrageous lengths in its attempt to silence Mahmoud Khalil, including leveling unsubstantiated and retaliatory charges against him,” said **Liza Weisberg, ACLU-NJ Senior Staff Attorney**. “We will continue to defend Mr. Khalil’s freedom as he is targeted for his advocacy in support of Palestinian rights, and we are confident he will ultimately prevail." As for Alligator Alcatraz, people that are not having Due Process **are** really being cancelled. [https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article310541810.html](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article310541810.html) > **Exclusive: Hundreds at Alligator Alcatraz have no criminal charges, Miami Herald learns** ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/431 "2025-07-15T17:31:14Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/18): > > Try to respond without mentioning Trump. Of course, the right Trump voters did this too. And with the support of the Republicans in his administration. > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/18): > > You can not justify a self appointed judge opinion based on “Trump also did a bad thing” Uh, taking it to the courts was precisely a way to deal with what appeared on the surface to be unjustified asinine “cancellations” from media and other organizations that in reality are not much in favor of the “left”. > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/18): > > Fuck Trump. Trump is wrong. Cancel Culture is wrong. These are not contradictory statements. And that is fine, the issue with your say-so’s here is that they grossly ignore who is weaponizing the cancellations nowadays. You are just doing an equivalence fallacy about what cancelling is for the current left-wing and the current right-wing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/433 "2025-07-15T17:35:01Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Given that an independent investigation commissioned by AMC in conjunction with a major law firm found that Dysktra tried to smear Hardwick with unsubstantiated accusations, I wouldn’t consider any of Dysktra’s claims to be credible. Cite for this, please. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/434 "2025-07-15T17:37:47Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > an independent investigation commissioned by AMC in conjunction with a major law firm found that Dysktra tried to smear Hardwick with unsubstantiated accusations, Really? _That’s_ what they found? You have a cite for that? Because I didn’t read anything about motive or smearing in the press release. That’s leaving aside that they never actually interviewed her or her friends and family for this ‘independent investigation’. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/435 "2025-07-15T17:39:56Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1020887/19): > > I guess my plea didn’t work. Trump was the 4th word. That is just nitpicking, in any case, you are still just doing an equivalence fallacy about what cancelling is for the current left-wing and the current right-wing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/437 "2025-07-15T17:42:46Z")
Cite for what, exactly? You didn’t quote jack and I made multiple points. Which person are you talking about? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644.md?page=13)