# Cancel Culture and Canceling versus consequences for actions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644 "2025-07-08T22:55:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/535 "2025-07-16T14:55:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you think you have some special insight into the mindset of women who have experienced (or claimed to experience) sexual assault or other trauma? I do not. I am not a clinical psychologist. I just find it strange that someone puts in the effort to publish a set of damaging allegations, and then shortly thereafter refuses to participate in investigations specifically intended to establish the veracity of the allegations. P.S.- Is this going to be cited as another example of “casting aspersions” against Dykstra? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Strange _to you_, perfectly understandable to others. I know (years after the fact) after I told my mother about my rapist relative, I felt absolutely no need to confront him or do anything more about it, either. Telling my side to _someone_ was all I needed, it turned out. I’m very sorry about your experience. There may be some deep psychological point here that I’m not getting. But looked at dispassionately, surely you can appreciate that Dykstra’s refusal to participate in an investigation in which she is the central figure ought to raise reasonable suspicions about the veracity of her story? That’s certainly the basis of a lot of legal proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/536 "2025-07-16T14:57:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Can you make an argument that _doesn’t_ rely on inherent distrust of capitalism? Why would I? Capitalism is intimately involved in what Patriarchy does. > [@Babale](#): > > You know, for those of us who think it’s actually a fairly effective way of organizing society? Why should I pander? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/537 "2025-07-16T15:00:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > There may be some deep psychological point here that I’m not getting. “Sometimes you just need to tell your side to _somebody_” is not such a deep point. > [@wolfpup](#): > > But looked at dispassionately Why would I do that? I’m not a Vulcan. > [@wolfpup](#): > > surely you can appreciate that Dykstra’s refusal to participate in an investigation in which she is the central figure ought to raise reasonable suspicions about the veracity of her story? It raises ‘suspicions’ that are very, very easily answered by anyone who doesn’t think Patriarchy is a myth. > [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s certainly the basis of a lot of legal proceedings. Again with the legal irrelevancy. This was never a court case. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/538 "2025-07-16T15:04:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why would I? Capitalism is intimately involved in what Patriarchy does. Can you throw Colonialism and White Supremacy on there too, so I get my bingo? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Why should I pander? Making an actual argument rather than relying on buzzwords is “pandering”? Got it, I’ll treat your argument with the consideration it merits. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/539 "2025-07-16T15:07:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Can you throw Colonialism and White Supremacy on there too, so I get my bingo? I’m glad women’s pain is such a source of entertainment to you. \s > [@Babale](#): > > Making an actual argument rather than relying on buzzwords is “pandering”? Pretending there’s anything of worth in capitalism just because you’ve drunk the Kool-Aid would be the pandering. > [@Babale](#): > > Got it, I’ll treat your argument with the consideration it merits. How about you just ignore it entirely? That would suit me just fine. Certainly would be nice to be free from the snide asides. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/540 "2025-07-16T15:14:44Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I do not. I am not a clinical psychologist. I just find it strange that someone puts in the effort to publish a set of damaging allegations, and then shortly thereafter refuses to participate in investigations specifically intended to establish the veracity of the allegations. > > P.S.- Is this going to be cited as another example of “casting aspersions” against Dykstra? Yes, you’re continuing to imply dishonesty/malicious motives for a woman who has (as far as we can possibly know) done nothing other than write about her own experiences. That’s misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/541 "2025-07-16T15:14:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m glad women’s pain is such a source of amusement to you. \s That’s a pretty disgusting statement. I don’t find women’s suffering amusing at all. I do find the obsession with capitalism as the root of all evil pretty silly though. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Pretending there’s anything of worth in capitalism just because you’ve drunk the Kool-Aid would be the pandering. He said, typing on his capitalist produced computer to post a message on a capitalist message board using infrastructure constructed mostly by capitalistic companies working for profit. > [@MrDibble](#): > > How about you just ignore it entirely? That would suit me just fine. Certainly would be nice to be free from the snide asides. By “snide aside”, you mean these asides, right? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Pretending there’s anything of worth in capitalism just because you’ve drunk the Kool-Aid would be the pandering. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m glad women’s pain is such a source of entertainment to you. \s ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/542 "2025-07-16T15:16:32Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > My idea of a ‘safe space’ is one where I am accepted as myself and don’t have to be constantly paranoid about accidentally offending someone and suffering unpredictable consequences. The diametric opposite of the modern social justice conception of a safe space. When your actions or words harm other people, you don’t get to cry ‘safe space’ about the consequences. The person you just harmed is also entitled to a safe space, where they aren’t attacked by your words. You think it’s opposite of the purpose because you don’t realize the space is being kept safe from you. If you have a habit of offending people and making them feel bad about themselves, you probably should be paranoid, and quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/543 "2025-07-16T15:17:46Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s funny, I nearly said that in my comment: the fact you cannot make a space ‘safe’ for everyone at once is something I have seen mentioned multiple times - but never by a supporter of the ‘social justice’ movement. You are the first. Nor have I ever seen anyone talk about a space where it is safe to make mistakes. It has always been about keeping safe from offence by policing what is said. Well, the very narrow orbit of your experience with progressive thought is a consistent problem with your arguments, so I guess that’s not shocking. But yeah, a “safe space” for LGBT people - a place where they can be themselves without having to justify themselves constantly, is not going to be a “safe space” for someone who thinks all gay people are going to burn in hell. Because that’s literally the sort of person the safe space is supposed to be safe _from_. I’m getting the impression, here that you’re against the concept of safe spaces? I get that you think its vitally important that people publicly debate whether I deserve rights, but am I not allowed any place I can go where I don’t have to deal with that debate? Is it “canceling” if a guy wearing an “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” t-shirt isn’t allowed access to a gay bar? > [@DemonTree](#): > > But what do you mean by ‘safe to be around’? People on the spectrum are far more likely to be gay or trans, so the great majority of such gatherings in reality are welcoming to both. I didn’t mean, “safe as a queer man,” I meant, “able to tell if this guy is angry with me, because all of his non-verbal cues are coming across as ‘hostile.’” > [@DemonTree](#): > > I imagine a safe space for people with autism would be one where people are free to stim, talk in a monotone, not bother with eye contact, skip small talk and jump straight into a topic, and be ultra direct rather than worry about following rules of politeness. Maybe that would make you uncomfortable, I don’t know. Yes, that was the entire point of the analogy. I’d be profoundly uncomfortable in a safe place for autistic people to socialize without masking, because to me it would seem like everyone is being a jerk to me. But if I know I’m in a safe place for people with autism, and I start insisting that everyone start masking around me because it makes me uncomfortable, _I’m the one being a jerk._ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/544 "2025-07-16T15:22:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That’s a pretty disgusting statement. I don’t find women’s suffering amusing at all. Check the edit. If you’re playing bingo with it, you’re sure as hell not taking it seriously. > [@Babale](#): > > He said, typing on his capitalist produced computer to post a message on a capitalist message board using infrastructure constructed mostly by capitalistic companies working for profit. And hypothermia treatments were informed by Unit 731. Doesn’t mean I’m gonna let myself lose fingers to frostbite just because the source is evil. > [@Babale](#): > > By “snide aside”, you mean these asides, right? It’s not an “aside” if I’m literally talking right at you. Unlike this: > [@Babale](#): > > Well, you DO know that Hardwick is a W#ite m#le, so statistically speaking he’s a lying rapist. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/545 "2025-07-16T15:23:57Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But looked at dispassionately, surely you can appreciate that Dykstra’s refusal to participate in an investigation in which she is the central figure ought to raise reasonable suspicions about the veracity of her story? It doesn’t to me. Dykstra didn’t publish a story screaming “Hardwick is a rapist”. She published [an essay](https://medium.com/@skydart/rose-colored-glasses-6be0594970ca) talking about her experiences with (purported) abuse because she wanted to try and get some closure and share her experience about how easy she felt it is to emotionally manipulate someone. Many women and more than a few men have had difficulties getting stuck in abusive, dysfunctional relationships which they can’t seem to extricate themselves. Or fail to realize they should extricate themselves. People, particularly celebrities of one sort or another, sharing these sort of stories helps to validate the experiences of others struggling with the same issues and maybe occasionally wakes them up to their own serious problems they have been trying to ignore. I have absolutely no problem with this in general, even if you can occasionally find an example that is flawed. She admits she is still angry, but after the investigation said said she wasn’t interested in shitting on Hardwick’s career or engaging further about it. She just wanted to get her story out. Was she being disingenuous about that? Maybe. But also maybe not. Maybe she really just did want to get it out and that was it. I don’t think we can tell, anymore than we can tell if her stronger accusations (sexual assault) are accurate or not. But given all the framing my conclusions are we cannot tell if she is lying or not or Hardwick is an asshole or not. Though he is at least certainly the sort of guy to get involved with a women 17 years his junior and in her early twenties, which always makes me quirk an eyebrow skeptically. But whatever. Your seeming firm conclusion that Dykstra was just a bitter ex trying to torpedo him in a backhanded way doesn’t hold water for me. That might be the case, but I disagree we have enough evidence to tell either way. Or really just what puzzlegal said more succinctly. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/546 "2025-07-16T15:24:22Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Dykstra’s refusal to participate in an investigation in which she is the central figure ought to raise reasonable suspicions about the veracity of her story? Or… she’s not interested in reliving these abuses and being attacked by someone’s lawyer in order to ensure her rapist’s employer can decide whether firing him is a positive NPV for the company. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/547 "2025-07-16T15:24:48Z")
I get that capitalism has pros and cons, but is anyone seriously arguing that fucking _capitalism_ is the best way (or really anything other than a totally awful way) to get to the bottom of, and address, claims of sexual assault? That has to be a joke. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/548 "2025-07-16T15:28:55Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > So @Babale and @DemonTree , what legal or societal actions should we take to discourage or prevent movements like #metoo? > > You’ve identified what you want to stop, how do you do so while maintaining freedom of speech for everyone? Why have you tagged me here? I haven’t even mentioned #metoo, let alone said I want to stop it. Firing someone for rape or sexual assault is different to firing then for speech, and I would have thought that obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/549 "2025-07-16T15:33:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Check the edit. If you’re playing bingo with it, you’re sure as hell not taking it seriously. Women’s suffering isn’t entertaining, either. Obsession with the Boogeyman of capitalism is very entertaining, though. And has nothing to do with women’s suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/550 "2025-07-16T15:36:34Z")
#MeToo is one of the biggest scare examples of what you all call Cancel Culture. Denying that now seems very disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/551 "2025-07-16T15:37:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And has nothing to do with women’s suffering. If you’re playing pointless games while a serious discussion is going on about it, you’re certainly treating it as though it was mere entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/552 "2025-07-16T15:39:06Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > #MeToo is one of the biggest scare examples of what you all call Cancel Culture Who are “you all”? Who talked negatively about metoo in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/553 "2025-07-16T15:42:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If you’re playing pointless games while a serious discussion is going on about it, you’re certainly treating it as though it was mere entertainment. Pointing out the sophistry of screaming “Capitalism” at anything that moves, even using sarcasm to make that point, is not a “pointless game”. And making a real issue, like women being sexually assaulted, all about your typical hobby horse is pretty tasteless. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/554 "2025-07-16T15:44:17Z")
Ok. If you all want to claim that metoo isn’t an example of cancel culture or “wokeism” that’s fine, but I don’t find it convincing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644.md?page=18)