# Cancel Culture and Canceling versus consequences for actions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644 "2025-07-08T22:55:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/555 "2025-07-16T15:55:25Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > If you all want to claim that metoo isn’t an example of cancel culture or “wokeism” that’s fine, but I don’t find it convincing. I still want to know who “you all” are. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/556 "2025-07-16T15:57:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > I do not. I am not a clinical psychologist. I just find it strange that someone puts in the effort to publish a set of damaging allegations, and then shortly thereafter refuses to participate in investigations specifically intended to establish the veracity of the allegations. > > > > P.S.- Is this going to be cited as another example of “casting aspersions” against Dykstra? > > Yes, you’re continuing to imply dishonesty/malicious motives for a woman who has (as far as we can possibly know) done nothing other than write about her own experiences. That’s misogynistic. Really? Let me quote a snippet of something I previously posted: > [@wolfpup](#): > > According to the CDC, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men will experience physical violence by their intimate partner at some point during their lifetimes. > [Domestic Violence - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499891/) So maybe I’m 25% misogynistic and 15% misandrist. 🙄 Or, maybe, I just impartially follow the available evidence, and draw the most likely conclusions. As opposed to statements like this: > [@MrDibble](#): > > I believe women. No, pal, you need to believe people on the basis of their evidence-based credibility, not on their gender or race. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > That’s certainly the basis of a lot of legal proceedings. > > Again with the legal irrelevancy. This was never a court case. The reason I brought up court cases several times is that this is the best way society has yet found to establish the facts when there are conflicting claims between parties. It’s based on a dispassionate analysis of evidence, and in the cases where there’s no possibility of an absolute determination, on assigning probable likelihoods to one side of an argument or another. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/557 "2025-07-16T15:59:18Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Really? Let me quote a snippet of something I previously posted: > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > According to the CDC, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men will experience physical violence by their intimate partner at some point during their lifetimes. > > [Domestic Violence - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499891/) > > So maybe I’m 25% misogynistic and 15% misandrist. 🙄 Or, maybe, I just impartially follow the available evidence, and draw the most likely conclusions. But you’re not following evidence. You’re following your own feelings. There is literally not a shred of factual evidence that Dysktra was dishonest or had any malicious motives. Only your feelings. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/558 "2025-07-16T15:59:36Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > Ok. If you all want to claim that metoo isn’t an example of cancel culture or “wokeism” that’s fine, but I don’t find it convincing. Actually, using “woke” as a slur, shows a lot of ignorance. It is also a way to silence dissent, as many right wingers did before with many movements and slogans from the ones that complained of being traditionally silenced in the past. > **[THE NEW GUY: Woke, DEI, and proud of it](https://www.kenoraminerandnews.com/opinion/columnists/the-new-guy-woke-dei-and-proud-of-it)** > > Lately I have noticed that the labels woke and DEI have become repeated buzz words in our daily news cycle. It is always phrased as a negative and it is used mostly by the right to demonize the left. Since Trump came down the escalator some nine... > When Trump was in charge, “Black Lives Matter” and Antifa eventually became the new villains. Thus started a newfound racial and ideological divide. During the Biden years, it morphed into claims about his family’s alleged criminality, and in more recent times, the topic at hand has transformed yet again into anyone and everyone who is either woke, or who supports or benefits from the idea of DEI (diversity, equity and inclusion). Which brings us to where we are today. > > At face value, DEI is basically a means to help those with disadvantages, differences and struggles to have a better chance to survive for themselves in today’s “normal” world. It is a compassionate position, which is what our better selves hope the world could be. If you are a woman, have a disability, are of a minority race, or you are part of the LGBT community, you have the same rights of anyone else to make a good and fair living. If you can do the job, you should not be discriminated against for any of the above reasons. That was the goal of DEI. It was a noble idea, which under Trump has become a negative and will soon disappear. > Article content > > Woke, on the other hand was a verb that was turned into a noun, originally about being aware of all those around you, or reading through the lines of life, if you will. Something to do with the struggles of others and the mindset that we are all humans sharing this planet, and how such should be the concern of everyone. Woke, in other words, originated as the awareness that the world is a mess, along with a desire to make it better through understanding and compassion. We strive to put people in power that share the same sentiment. > > Oh, but now, being woke and wokeness are now negative. Caring about others, and trying to make society more caring and compassionate are not good things, according to the political right wing. Pierre Poilievre, and to a lesser extent Doug Ford pledge to end wokeness like it is some sort of disease. Since when did being good become such an evil? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/559 "2025-07-16T16:00:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Actually, using “woke” as a slur, shows a lot of ignorance. Can you quote the posts (aside from @Zoobi’s) that did that? Maybe I missed them. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/560 "2025-07-16T16:00:41Z")
@Babale @DemonTree @wolfpup so far I think. (That’s duck guy was banned it seems). That’s the crew that usually enters these anti-woke vs woke “debates” I mean I am sure you can come up with the list of woke posters you argue against in all of these all well. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/561 "2025-07-16T16:01:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Can you quote the posts (aside from @Zoobi’s) that did that? Maybe I missed them. Huh? It was just in the past post. > [@Zoobi](#): > > Ok. If you all want to claim that metoo isn’t an example of cancel culture or “wokeism” that’s fine, but I don’t find it convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/562 "2025-07-16T16:02:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Hu? It was just in the past post I’m asking if anyone aside from @Zoobi used the term woke derogatorily in this thread. He’s attributing the idea that “woke” is derogatory to me and DemonTree, but I didn’t make that claim, and I don’t see that she did in this thread either. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/563 "2025-07-16T16:03:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m asking if anyone aside from @Zoobi used the term woke derogatorily in this thread. Oh, I should not answer to him? I guess I should be silent. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/564 "2025-07-16T16:03:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > that is _literally always okay_ and should never be criticized. Ah… issue there with that last clause. May be criticized IF there’s a _well-founded_ critique to be made. But not casually. And of course the critic is subject to be called out on whether it was “well-founded” or not. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/565 "2025-07-16T16:04:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Oh,I should not answer to him? @Zoobi wasn’t using “woke” in a derogatory manner, he was claiming (falsely, mistakenly maybe?) that other people did. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/566 "2025-07-16T16:05:36Z")
Perhaps, it does deserve a reply to those that do. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/567 "2025-07-16T16:06:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Perhaps, it does deserve a reply to those that do The voices in @Zoobi’s head deserve a reply? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/568 "2025-07-16T16:08:44Z")
Whoa, I guess I really **should** be silent. In any case in the past other posters like **DemonTree** used DEI and other slogans as a slur before, in the USA, woke and many other words are still used as slurs. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/569 "2025-07-16T16:08:51Z")
You are all free to substitute whatever other cluster of words you want to label the movement you are opposed to that includes things like #metoo or DEI etc. I believe illiberal left was also a term used, but I find it lacking myself. The scare-quoted woke seems the most pithy to me. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/570 "2025-07-16T16:10:43Z")
Well, I guess I have to thank you for confirming what I suspected. Really, “Woke” is a good example of how the right turned good slogans into slurs with the objective to silence others. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/571 "2025-07-16T16:12:45Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > You are all free to substitute whatever other cluster of words you want to label the movement you are opposed to that includes things like #metoo or DEI Why do you keep pretending that I’m against #metoo? And where did I say anything about “DEI”? I’d be very grateful if you stopped making stuff up about me from whole cloth. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/572 "2025-07-16T16:16:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, the very narrow orbit of your experience with progressive thought is a consistent problem with your arguments, so I guess that’s not shocking. My experience with ‘progressive thought’ is pretty much entirely online - first through various blogs back when I thought it was a good idea (now presumably out of date), and debating with progressives here and on Twitter (and reading Reddit) in the last few years. It’s quite possible there is a more sophisticated version, but all the people repeating simplistic arguments they only half understood also exist, and are representative of the movement too. I also find many people here are not well up on what young people believe, given the average age on the forum. > [@Miller](#): > > I’m getting the impression, here that you’re against the concept of safe spaces? I get that you think its vitally important that people publicly debate whether I deserve rights, but am I not allowed any place I can go where I don’t have to deal with that debate? Is it “canceling” if a guy wearing an “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” t-shirt isn’t allowed access to a gay bar? I’m not against safe spaces. I’m against the naive implementation of them, where people think they can make a common space safe for everyone and end up excluding a whole bunch of people. And I’m against trying to turn the world into a safe space by demanding everyone comply with an escalating series of demands to watch their words, read the room, keep abreast of constantly changing progressive shibboleths, and treat minor failings as worse than murder. And then lying that it’s just basic politeness. I have no problem whatsoever with turning away the guy in the ‘Adam and Eve’ shirt from the gay bar. > [@Miller](#): > > I didn’t mean, “safe as a queer man,” I meant, “able to tell if this guy is angry with me, because all of his non-verbal cues are coming across as ‘hostile.’” Oh, I see. I often can’t tell anyway; it’s not exactly a top 10 problem. 🤷‍♀️ > [@Miller](#): > > Yes, that was the entire point of the analogy. I’d be profoundly uncomfortable in a safe place for autistic people to socialize without masking, because to me it would seem like everyone is being a jerk to me. But if I know I’m in a safe place for people with autism, and I start insisting that everyone start masking around me because it makes me uncomfortable, _I’m the one being a jerk._ I understand why it might make you uncomfortable, because in that situation _you_ would be the one unable to read social cues or predict how people would react. But I don’t understand why you’d feel people were being jerks to you specifically. What if you’re not in a ‘safe space’ for autists, and you’re talking to someone who can’t mask, or can’t do it well (or even just chooses not to)? Do you feel they are being a jerk to you just by being themselves? Do you feel entitled to demand they start masking? ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/573 "2025-07-16T16:18:06Z")
I am quite confident people can read posting histories and determine if they think I’m accurate or not in my assessment. If they don’t, that’s great, we have free speech after all. This is all a hijack anyway. The topic is Cancel Culture. I claim #metoo is a fundamental aspect of that. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644/574 "2025-07-16T16:43:11Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > And I’m against trying to turn the world into a safe space by demanding everyone comply with an escalating series of demands to watch their words, read the room, keep abreast of constantly changing progressive shibboleths, and treat minor failings as worse than murder. And then lying that it’s just basic politeness. This is what basic politeness is. Watch your words, read the room, keep abreast of changing norms, and get whalloped for being impolite. These days, instead of being judged for using the fish fork on your salad, wearing white after Labor Day, or for being a single mom, people are dinged for demeaning someone, or sexually assaulting someone, celebrating the CSA, or wanting to casually deny someone their own freedoms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-canceling-versus-consequences-for-actions/1020644.md?page=19)