# Cancel Culture and Virtue Signaling -- What’s the case against them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 14, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459 "2022-02-14T13:43:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/63 "2022-02-14T22:48:19Z")
You found a great example of social pressure and consequences (“cancel culture”) being used for evil. So what? It’s a tool. It’s good when this tool is used for good purposes and bad when it’s used for bad purposes. Just like money, or a car, or a baseball bat, or other tools. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/65 "2022-02-14T22:52:54Z")
So I shouldn’t be allowed to criticize Joe Rogan? CR protestors shouldn’t have been allowed to boycott the Montgomery bus service? An employer shouldn’t be able to fire someone who is outed as a KKK member? Even if this could sink their business? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/67 "2022-02-14T23:00:34Z")
So were the people boycotting the bus system also the same people getting that Black factory worker fired? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/68 "2022-02-14T23:01:27Z")
So it should be illegal for me to say that Spotify should drop Rogan? What if Spotify had David Duke - would it be wrong, or should it be illegal, for me to say that they should drop Duke? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/69 "2022-02-14T23:04:12Z")
> [@FortKnox](#): > > It is like somebody in my neighborhood is an accused pedophile, but the cops don’t have enough evidence. My neighbors and I go over to his house with pitchforks and torches and burn his house down. Well, the Constitution wasn’t violated because it wasn’t the police and Judicial system that deprived him of his right to trial. Well, you’re correct, the constitution has not been violated. However, you and the rest of the mob have broken several laws - arson, for example - and should (and, likely, will) all be rounded up and put in prison. So, that’s not a great example to make your point. > [@FortKnox](#): > > Another concern, society has a way swinging back and forth between right and left. I don’t think everybody that is pro-cancel culture now, will be when the pendulum swings the other way. In fact, in the not so distant past, socialists, union organizers, civil rights leaders were all victims of “cancel culture” albeit pre internet. Yeah, no shit. That’s argument number one against whining about “cancel culture.” The outcry over cancel culture isn’t because this is a new and unprecedented social phenomenon, it happened because the traditional arbiters of appropriate social behavior no long wield enough political power to maintain that position, and that both angers and terrifies them. So, we get ridiculous distinctions like, “Joe Rogan is a victim of cancel culture, but the Dixie Chicks were targets of a legitimate boycott.” > [@](#): > > Does anyone here think it was ok that a poor black factory worker could lose his job for being seen at a MLK event? The factory owner wasn’t the government. Is anyone going to defend the factory owner actions? Defend him morally? No, of course not. Morally, firing that worker was absolutely unjustified, and the factory owner is a piece of shit for doing it. But legally, he was almost certainly not breaking any laws. Which invites the obvious question, _should_ there be a law preventing someone from being fired for their political opinions? Personally, I don’t think so. Because the problem with making it illegal to fire a worker for going to an MLK rally is, it also makes it illegal to fire a worker for going to a KKK rally. And the latter is a privilege I would like to retain. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/70 "2022-02-14T23:05:29Z")
Is all comes back to people demanding the restoration of their privilege to avoid any consequences for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/72 "2022-02-14T23:06:56Z")
So what exactly are you advocating for? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/73 "2022-02-14T23:07:47Z")
So any white person who joined the boycott was in the wrong? I guess that’s makes sense for a conversative mindset where no right thinking white person would help a cause outside of their race (virtue signalling). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/74 "2022-02-14T23:07:52Z")
> [@FortKnox](#): > > It is like somebody in my neighborhood is an accused pedophile, but the cops don’t have enough evidence. My neighbors and I go over to his house with pitchforks and torches and burn his house down. Well, the Constitution wasn’t violated because it wasn’t the police and Judicial system that deprived him of his right to trial. Terrible analogy. It would be like telling your kids to stay away from his house. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Which one of those is “encouraging people not to listen to him” (OK) and which one is firing the poor Black factory worker (not OK)? Which one of those is like burning down someone’s house? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/75 "2022-02-14T23:07:54Z")
How, precisely, are you going to accomplish that? You’re going to tell everyone that they must shop at places where they don’t want to shop, and that they can’t discuss why they don’t want to shop there with other people? That strikes me as a very strange way to enforce free speech rights. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/76 "2022-02-14T23:10:04Z")
> [@FortKnox](#): > > Perhaps the tool should be taken away. Maybe we shouldn’t use baseball bats on each other. Freedom of speech allows Hitler to write Mein Kampf. Freedom of the press allows someone to publish it. Should those tools be taken away, because someone exercises them in a way you don’t like? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/77 "2022-02-14T23:11:24Z")
> [@FortKnox](#): > > Maybe the factory owner wasn’t even a rabid racist and didn’t care the worker went to a MLK event. But the “business community” of the time “if you keep this person whose political beliefs we disagree with on we will f\* your business up” Or the mob of guys in KKK hoods. > [@FortKnox](#): > > Perhaps the tool should be taken away. Maybe we shouldn’t use baseball bats on each other. You keep equating speech with violence. Not sure why you choose to do that. If people say that they will no longer do business with someone because they employee someone that was at an MLK speech, that’s their business. I strongly disagree with that stance, but it’s their right. But, no one is bringing out pitchforks or committing arson, that’s just fearmongering. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/79 "2022-02-14T23:14:12Z")
> [@FortKnox](#): > > When you demand Spotify take him off the air, you are the people demanding the poor black factory worker be fired. You are equating Joe Rogan to “the poor black factory worker”? It is to laugh. > [@FortKnox](#): > > A Free Liberal Society does not punish people for their free speech. So, you want a society where freedom of speech is freedom from consequences of speech? How are _you_ planning on punishing those who speak out against speech they find odious. Whose factory are you planning on burning down, whose kneecaps are you looking to take a baseball bat to? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/81 "2022-02-14T23:17:20Z")
So, you don’t want freedom of speech then? You can say what you want, but I can’t object to it? That’s censorship, and that is exactly what you are advocating for. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/83 "2022-02-14T23:18:50Z")
If you’re saying that it should be illegal to advocate that Spotify drop Rogan, then you’re advocating censorship. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/85 "2022-02-14T23:20:13Z")
But not free to advocate that someone be fired? That’s censorship, if that is what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/88 "2022-02-14T23:26:31Z")
> [@FortKnox](#): > > Curious circular logic going on. If I advocate not censoring Joe Rogan, I am censoring you. No, when you advocate not censoring Joe Rogan, you’re just _disagreeing_ with me. The part where you start censoring me is when you say: > [@FortKnox](#): > > Perhaps the tool should be taken away. Because the “tool” in question is my freedom of speech, and my freedom of association. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/89 "2022-02-14T23:27:00Z")
Advocate all you want. But do you want to make it illegal? I don’t want to make Rogan illegal, or Spotify illegal, but I think they should drop Rogan. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/90 "2022-02-14T23:27:47Z")
I think burning houses down is the modern version of burning down a house. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/92 "2022-02-14T23:28:50Z")
What civil rights laws am I breaking if I speak out against Joe Rogan? Or are you wanting to create laws that censor me from speaking out against Joe Rogan that you can then prosecute me for? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459.md?page=5)