# Cancel Culture and Virtue Signaling -- What’s the case against them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 14, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459 "2022-02-14T13:43:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/173 "2022-02-15T08:57:19Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Conservatives virtue-signal as much as liberals, maybe even more. They are jealous that most sane people see conservative virtues as vice. Vice? Or sin? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/174 "2022-02-15T11:41:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That definitely wasn’t the case with boycotting the Apartheid government in South Africa in the 80s. We did want it to not exist. Semantics. You wanted it to change from an Apartheid government to a non-Apartheid government; you didn’t want to abolish government in South Africa in general (I assume). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/175 "2022-02-15T13:11:55Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > The real cancel culture is when an unknown student newspaper journalist loses his scholarship for criticizing the Liberty University administration, or a miserably paid adjunct professor is fired for saying something against AA. Whenever I hear these “headlines” given, once the whole story comes out, it’s not nearly as simple as it is made to be. There’s a reason why these accusations are made vague and uncited, isn’t there? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/176 "2022-02-15T13:15:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Semantics. You wanted it to change from an Apartheid government to a non-Apartheid government; No, sophistry on your part. We wanted to end the Apartheid government. We ended the Apartheid government. What it’s replaced with doesn’t signify, any more than if I boycott Chick-Fil-A, it closes and a KFC pops up in its place. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/177 "2022-02-15T13:21:10Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There’s a reason why these accusations are made vague and uncited, isn’t there? Yes. Same as the math and music stuff above. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/178 "2022-02-15T13:35:51Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Should a person lose their job or business? Be banned from all future employment as a registered racist? Should we ban the works of Quentin Tarantino, Mel Brooks, and other white artists who have used it in their works? Should any artistic work with any racial overtones be banned? No. Is this something that anyone is actually advocating for? > [@msmith537](#): > > For that matter, why is “racism” considered such an unforgivable form of “being a jerk”? I’m not sure why you put racism in quotes, and I’m not sure why you have chosen to make the assertion that you have in your “question”. It certainly is being a jerk, considering other human beings to be lesser than you based on their skin color. But it’s not unforgivable by any means. Depending on how much damage one has done with their racism, forgiveness may be hard to win, and sincerity may be questioned, but people can accept that people change. I’m sure that there will be _some_ who will never forgive, but singling them out is simply nutpicking, not making any sort of useful point. > [@msmith537](#): > > I’m just against any group arbitrarily determining what is considered “good taste” for the entire country. As am I. But don’t we as a collective society have some say? Explain to me why I can’t put up a billboard featuring child pornography without accepting that there are some things that are “arbitrarily” considered to be not in good taste. Unless you think that I should be allowed to put up such billboards, then we agree that there are some things that society shouldn’t allow. Now we are just debating _where_ that line is. > [@msmith537](#): > > To me “virtue signaling” is a disingenuous attempt to ingratiate yourself with a more liberally-minded audience. That’s a good definition for the right to use as a boogieman, but not one that actually reflects reality very well at all. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/179 "2022-02-15T13:36:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > A teenager who wears a Trump hat gets threats of violence from members of this board cite? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/180 "2022-02-15T13:44:15Z")
He’s talking about that kid in the MAGA hat who, it was reported, was screaming at some Native American person. That story fell apart, but I think there were people here saying that the kid had a punchable face, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/181 "2022-02-15T13:46:37Z")
He said that members of this board threatened him with physical violence. Either he is talking about a different incident, or he’s not remember this one very accurately. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/182 "2022-02-15T13:48:07Z")
I have no doubt that some members of this board where talking about hitting that kid in the Pit thread. If I can find the thread, I’ll PM you. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/183 "2022-02-15T13:56:10Z")
This thread does bring forth in some of its posts part of what the “real problem” involves: the loss of the notion of nuance and of that Case X might _ **be** _ different and worse than Case Y and thus merit a _different_ reaction; the rise of bothsidesism and itsallthesameism and the repeated playing the hypocrisy card to the point it has lost meaning. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/184 "2022-02-15T13:58:01Z")
Were they saying that he has a punchable face, or _actually_ threatening violence against him, as was claimed? I think that Denis Leary has a punchable face as well, but that doesn’t mean that I’d actually hit him. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/185 "2022-02-15T14:03:26Z")
I think this is a hijack that really doesn’t need to be discussed here. I’m not sure why anyone lets these threads get hijacked by vague, uncited claims about both sides anyway. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/186 "2022-02-15T14:13:37Z")
If it’s a hijack to make vague unsupported claims, then sure, mayhap they shouldn’t make them. But asking someone to back their vague unsupported claims seems reasonable. 🤷 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/187 "2022-02-15T15:34:52Z")
Ultimately, for most people, cancel culture all comes down to whether it’s for your team or not. I’m reminded of the words of conservative blogger Matt Walsh: Two years ago he said that if you block traffic to protest, you’re an asshole, period, but in recent days he has said that he supports the Ottawa truckers because “It’s not complicated. I support blocking when it’s for a good cause and oppose when it’s for a bad cause. Simple as that.” ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/188 "2022-02-15T15:41:48Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > This thread does bring forth in some of its posts part of what the “real problem” involves: the loss of the notion of nuance and of that Case X might _ **be** _ different and worse than Case Y and thus merit a _different_ reaction; the rise of bothsidesism and itsallthesameism and the repeated playing the hypocrisy card to the point it has lost meaning. ^^^^ this. Loudly and repeatedly, this. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/189 "2022-02-15T17:26:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Ultimately, for most people, cancel culture all comes down to whether it’s for your team or not. I think that this oversimplifies pretty much everything that has been said, and ignores the rest. > [@Velocity](#): > > I’m reminded of the words of conservative blogger Matt Walsh: We know that conservatives have no problem with hypocrisy, especially if they can tu quoque it and blame their hypocrisy on liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/190 "2022-02-15T17:55:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > So what should be the penalty for using the “N word”? Should a person lose their job or business? Be banned from all future employment as a registered racist? Should we ban the works of Quentin Tarantino, Mel Brooks, and other white artists who have used it in their works? Should any artistic work with any racial overtones be banned? Or - and here’s a crazy idea - we could use nuance and context when we address issues like this, and not act like we can’t recognize the difference between Mark Twain using the word in _Huck Finn_, and Michael Richards screaming the word in rage at an audience member. > [@msmith537](#): > > Using “preferred pronouns” on Linkedin. Less than 0.5% of Americans identify as “transgendered”. Statistically speaking, most people probably use the pronouns you think they would use. If you legitimately identify as a different gender than your physical appearance might indicate, sure. But what would be the point of a traditional-looking male like me to specifically call that out? Well, as a queer guy. when I’m talking to someone I don’t know, it’s nice to have some sort of gauge on how safe it is for me to mention that I’m queer. If someone’s sporting a pride sticker on their laptop, it’s probably okay for me to mention that I have a boyfriend. Marking your pronouns in Outlook provides a similar cue to trans people. This is, in the literal sense of the term, “virtue signaling” - you’re literally signaling that you have a particular virtue, so that people know you’re okay to be around - but I don’t think the motive here deserves the pejorative implication of the term. > [@msmith537](#): > > 20-something hipsters sitting in coffee shops with BLM stickers on their Macbooks is “virtue signaling”. Does it become less of a virtue signal if the hipster in question is Black? And either way, why is that a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/191 "2022-02-15T20:16:53Z")
I hate Virtue signaling when it’s brought up apropos of nothing. If you’re on a podcast about playing Dungeons and Dragons don’t randomly start lecturing me to support my local Chinese food restaurant because of racism against Asians. Not only does it have no real point, you’re also talking to an audience who odds are isn’t in the middle of of boycotting their local Chinese food restaurant. It does nothing except artificially inflate your own ego. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459/192 "2022-02-15T20:24:47Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > If you’re on a podcast about playing Dungeons and Dragons don’t randomly start lecturing me to support my local Chinese food restaurant because of racism against Asians. Is that something that happens, or is that just a random example that you made up? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancel-culture-and-virtue-signaling-what-s-the-case-against-them/959459.md?page=9)