# Cancelling an event without refunding ticket purchases **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 11, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175 "2024-04-11T23:28:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/1 "2024-04-11T23:28:00Z")
A Grateful Dead themed music festival called _Skull and Roses_ has taken place in Southern California for the past few years. This year’s festival was scheduled for April 19-23. On April 9, ten days before the event, the organizer announced that due to “the financial devastation of the 2023 show”, the festival has been cancelled. This is bad enough, given that many people have bought airline tickets, lodging, etc. to attend. But it was also suggested that ticket purchasers [may not receive a refund](https://skullandroses.com) for their tickets: > While tickets and hotels were sold on a non-refundable basis, we sincerely wish that funds were available to refund all purchases. Unfortunately, this is simply not the case at this time. Can they really get away with this? It’s hard to believe that every last dollar they collected has somehow evaporated, and that they didn’t anticipate this earlier, since they claim it is a fallout from last year’s event. Can they just keep whatever funds are left? It’s also hard to believe that they can legally sell tickets and then just cancel with a “sucks to be you” message with no repurcusions. What is their legal responsibility here? Normally I understand a ticket being “non-refundable” to mean the purchaser can’t arbitrarily ask for a refund, not that the seller can cancel the event without a refund. (This doesn’t affect me personally; while I have attended in the past, thankfully I did not buy tickets for this year’s event.) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/2 "2024-04-11T23:38:09Z")
I am not a lawyer, but I would imagine there could be a class-action lawsuit for this. They could be required to take out loans or liquidate some assets if they lost. That being said, it all boils down to the nitpicking words of the specific policy in question. I would guess there is a high chance the court will rule, “The buyer knew it was nonrefundable when they purchased.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/3 "2024-04-11T23:47:55Z")
My guess might be that the promoter, having taken a financial bath last year, ran out of money during preparations for this year’s event. They might well be declaring bankruptcy. But, I agree with @Velocity : this is when the lawyers get involved. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/4 "2024-04-11T23:59:00Z")
That’s pretty much what I was going to say. If they aren’t bankrupt, then they definitely owe refunds for tickets. If they are bankrupt, which is definitely possible, then all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/5 "2024-04-12T00:06:41Z")
IANAL but there are basic elements to a contract: > A contract is an agreement between [parties](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/party#:~:text=In%20legal%20parlance%2C%20a%20party,a%20defendant%20in%20a%20lawsuit.), creating mutual [obligations](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/obligation#:~:text=An%20obligation%20binds%20together%20two,party%20has%20a%20correlative%20right.) that are enforceable by [law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/law). The basic [elements](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/element) required for the agreement to be a [legally](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legal) enforceable contract are: [mutual assent](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/mutual_assent), expressed by a valid [offer and acceptance](https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-206); adequate [consideration](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/consideration); [capacity](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/capacity); and [legality](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legality). - [SOURCE](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/contract) Note that one of those elements is consideration: > Consideration is a [promise](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/promise), performance, or [forbearance](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/forbearance) bargained by a promisor in exchange for their promise. Consideration is the main element of a [contract](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/contract). Without consideration by both parties, a contract cannot be enforceable. For instance, if a person used the money to purchase an apple, the apple is the merchant’s consideration, and the money is the person’s consideration. - [SOURCE](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/consideration) I do not see how “non-refundable” enters into this here. That usually means you, the person buying the ticket, can not ask for a refund even though the event is still going to happen. But, if the promoters cancel the event it is not on you. You no longer have the other side of that consideration necessary in a contract. You paid money but get nothing? That’s not how it works. As others have said, talk to a lawyer. If that is too expensive, sue them in small claims court. I’d be shocked if an attorney didn’t form a class action lawsuit for this. You are probably SOL with the hotels and travel though. It’s not their fault the event was cancelled. You’ll have to deal with whatever their cancellation policies are. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/6 "2024-04-12T00:12:16Z")
> Some ticket holders who purchased their passes through Eventbrite told the Chronicle that they successfully requested refunds via the online ticketing platform as of Wednesday, April 10. [**SOURCE**](https://www.sfchronicle.com/entertainment/article/grateful-dead-tribute-canceled-19395958.php) But – as an old DeadHead with lots of GD shows under my belt … this sucks. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/7 "2024-04-12T00:13:10Z")
Those people who bought the tickets with a credit card may be able to get their money back from the credit card company. The question is how much money is left. If they had enough money left to refund everybody they would have used this to put on the show. So while the customers are legally entitled to a refund they won’t get it if there is no money there. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/8 "2024-04-12T00:13:33Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > But – as an old DeadHead with lots of GD shows under my belt … this sucks. Same here and I agree. (Among many others, I saw Jerry’s last show. Of course, I didn’t know that at the time.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/9 "2024-04-12T00:14:17Z")
What was the stated refund policy on their website, and was anything printed on the ticket? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/10 "2024-04-12T00:15:34Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Those people who bought the tickets with a credit card may be able to get their money back from the credit card company. You can try to reverse charges but that usually gets you blackballed from ever doing business with that company again (e.g. Eventbrite or Ticketbastard). Since they control so much ticketing in the US you might find it difficult to ever go to another show. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/11 "2024-04-12T00:17:10Z")
FWIW, I looked and couldn’t find it. What I did, however, find was the Terms & Conditions for the 2022 (?) show, billed as “Skull & Roses4.” The upcoming show was billed as “Skull & Roses6.” Two years ago, they did NOT have a no refund policy (**[7pp PDF](https://skullandroses.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-22-Festival-Terms-Conditions.pdf)**). Which could mean something or nothing at all, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/12 "2024-04-12T00:19:59Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Two years ago, they did NOT have a no refund policy (**[7pp PDF](https://skullandroses.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-22-Festival-Terms-Conditions.pdf)**). Did they have any refund policy at all? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/13 "2024-04-12T00:22:27Z")
> [@](#): > > FESTIVAL CANCELLATION BY S&R > Upon the occurrence of an Festival cancellation by S&R, S&R shall have the option to either: (a) elect to issue a refund to the Ticket purchaser of record in an amount equivalent to the face value of Tickets only (or a prorata portion thereof, in the Festival of a partial cancellation) or (b) reschedule the Festival for a future date within the 18-month period immediately following the Festival cancellation by the S&R. In cases of the rescheduling the cancelled Festival for a future date, You shall not be entitled to refund. Purchasing Tickets pursuant to these terms and conditions subjects You to a high degree of risk relative to possible Festival cancellations. If you do not agree with ANY OF the terms and conditions AS set forth in this Paragraph OR AGREEMENT, or if you do not agree with, or agree to assume the allocation of risk TO YOU AS SET FORTH HEREUNDER, do not purchase Tickets. > > REFUNDS DUE TO CANCELLATION BY S&R > In the event of S&R’s election to issue refunds, the following shall apply: S&R shall issue refunds, on a pro-rata or “per day” basis for multi-day Festivals, as applicable. For purposes of determining any pro-rata refunds due, S&R shall only be required to issue refunds in “whole days” and once Venue gates open, the Festival on that particular date shall be deemed to have been delivered in its entirely and not subject to refund. You shall only be entitled to refunds for those days for which You purchased Tickets and for which Venue access was never granted during the course of an entire day. Delayed gate openings shall not be subject to refunds. Under no circumstances shall You be entitled to a refund of any shipping, handling or other processing fees. Purchasing Tickets pursuant to these terms and conditions subjects You to a high degree of risk relative to possible Festival cancellations. If you do not agree with these terms and conditions set forth in this Paragraph or as otherwise set forth in this agreement, or if you do not agree with, or agree to assume the allocation of risks that is being transferred to You hereunder, do not purchase Tickets. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/14 "2024-04-12T01:00:32Z")
So they’ve got 18 months to come up with a replacement event before they are liable. Gives them plenty of time to scam others into sponsoring a new gig. In the meantime you are on hold for a year and a half. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/15 "2024-04-12T01:07:18Z")
Check your facts. Refunds were issued to everyone who bought tickets and hotel packages within 24 hours. I have been to all of the past festivals and know the organizers well. I have also volunteered my time to the festival for the past two years. I bought a ticket for this year’s festival and my AmEx was reimbursed this morning. The whole thing this year was a massive debacle and it will take a while for the dust to settle. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/16 "2024-04-12T01:15:49Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Check your facts. Refunds were issued to everyone who bought tickets and hotel packages within 24 hours. Are you saying that everyone’s getting refunds? Because the statement issued on Tuesday by the event organizer says otherwise: > [@](#): > > REFUNDS: While tickets and hotels were sold on a non-refundable basis, we sincerely wish that funds were available to refund all purchases. Unfortunately, this is simply not the case at this time. Source: [Grateful Dead Tribute Festival Skull & Roses Canceled With No Refunds](https://www.stereogum.com/2258833/next-weeks-grateful-dead-cover-band-festival-canceled-with-no-refunds/news/) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/17 "2024-04-12T01:17:16Z")
Despite Chris’s stupid announcement, Eventbright is issuing refunds to everyone who bought a ticket or a hotel package ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/18 "2024-04-12T01:19:42Z")
I’m just curious, @hajario , if you have a cite you’d be willing to share on it. Not that I don’t believe you, but it’s just very different from what every news site has been saying (but, then, they’re all apparently quoting that same press release). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/19 "2024-04-12T01:22:48Z")
I have spent the last two days helping to get people through this and I am exhausted. That press release was ill advised to say the least. Eventbrite is making good on this using their insurance. S&R isn’t the entity that is paying. This all came about on Wednesday ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/20 "2024-04-12T01:25:23Z")
I made reference to the Eventbrite refunds [**above**](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175/6). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancelling-an-event-without-refunding-ticket-purchases/1000175.md?page=2)