# CANCER fully explained. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2002, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358 "2002-08-24T10:00:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![David\_Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a587f6/32.png) [@David\_Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Wilson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/1 "2002-08-24T10:00:29Z")
[Original post deleted] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/2 "2002-08-24T10:26:47Z")
What’s the debate, here, except as an example of how divorced your views are from reality? You start drifting into dangerous waters right away with “[cancer] does not occur in properly nourished and vigorously healthy humans.” Well, _by definition_ cancer doesn’t occur in _healthy_ humans, since once the cancers appears, they aren’t really “healthy” any more. As a knee-jerk counter example, many members of the Soviet cleanup crews who ran into Chernobyl to try to put out the fires _did_ contract and die of cancer, though they tried to minimize their exposure by going into the hot zone as briefly as possible. I’m sure prior to that day, they were all reasonably healthy and well-nourished young men. As for your “CURE” list, I have to chuckle a little. FRUIT is the best food known to man? Puh-leeze (thought matt\_mcl might agree with you). Avoid all medicines? Thanks for throwing in the little chemo qualifer, that makes it ALL okay. At least it helps avoid legal liability from the estates of people who stop undergoing chemo, take your advice, and drop dead as a result. As for avoiding TV and computer radiation, aren’t you destroying the very people you’re trying to help by putting your information on the internet? As for breathing exercises, I’ll get all I need from laughing at you. Whatever it is you’re selling, I’m not buying. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a587f6/32.png) [@David\_Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Wilson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/3 "2002-08-24T11:16:52Z")
Consider…FRUIT 1…it provides complete nourishment with the minimum of extarneous substances capable of silting up the tissues. 2…it is the most easily digested, minimizing the energy required for digestion…thus limiting total calorie intake. 3…it is palatable. 4…it is easily obtained and prepared. 5…Minimum but adequate protein is provided. 6…minimum but adequate essential fats are provided. 7…maximum energy is available from what is eaten, with only carbondioxide and water, which are no-toxic,as the by-products. 8…it provides the body with adequate amounts of pure water. 9…it results in a favourable alkaline internal state{no cancer possible in presence of alkaline state}. 10…favourable intestinal flora predominate in the bowel 12…NO consitpation occurs. 13…No auto-intoxication 14…the body detoxifies 15…the blood is clean with low viscosity, there is good circulation with low blood pressur. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a587f6/32.png) [@David\_Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Wilson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/4 "2002-08-24T11:20:26Z")
Brian Ekyers…your opinions are irrelevant to me. ---
**Author:** ![WV\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@WV\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WV_Woman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/5 "2002-08-24T11:37:51Z")
_wades through the granola_ ---
**Author:** ![David\_Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a587f6/32.png) [@David\_Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Wilson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/6 "2002-08-24T11:41:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WV\_Woman \* > \*\*_wades through the granola_ \*\* WV Women…see my post to Brian. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/7 "2002-08-24T12:14:24Z")
I found the OP interesting until I got to this point: > [@](#): > > 8…remove all sources of stress That’s when I realized that the OP is insane. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/8 "2002-08-24T12:25:55Z")
So you’re 0 for 2 on relevant replies (I’l wait for your assessment of **Spoofe’s** wise-assery. I’m still mystified by what you wanted to “debate” although one could argue this kind of fact-free proselytizing comes close to “witnessing”, which is specifically encouraged on this board. As for your 15-point list on the virtues of fruit, I’ll concede _some_ of them since fruit is _a_ good food, but it is hardly the “best” in the sense that a person could live on fruit alone. Assuming fruit can supply all essential proteins and fats sounds damned dangerous to me. At the very least, you’d have to add certain high-protein legumes to the mix, like soybeans, though I personally recommend moderate meat consumption as well. An adult might get by, though it would be a low-energy lifestyle. Putting a growing child on such a regimen is borderline abuse. By the way, re point 9: what is an “alkaline internal state” and how does it make cancer impossible? Can you get into such a state by eating “strong enough for a man, but made for a woman” deoderant? A casual search on the phrase “alkaline food” yields [this](http://www.nutrition-guide.net/alkaline_food.html) site, which is as nutty and fact-free as your OP. You and **the\_great\_dalmuti** might get along well. Or maybe you’d just anhililate each other in a burst of vegan radiation. Either way, it would amusing to watch. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/9 "2002-08-24T12:51:24Z")
> [@](#): > > I’l wait for your assessment of Spoofe’s wise-assery Please… I prefer the term “Blunt honesty”. Although I should mention that the OP is decidedly patronizing… as I read through it, I kept telling myself “This is stuff I learned in grade 6.” When I finally got to the meat-and-potatoes of the debate, some 3/4 of the way through, and discovered that it was Yet Another Prophet Come To Lead His People To The Promised Land Of Health, I had a hard time not scoffing. Basically, I think Mr. Wilson is over-simplifying the issue. Eating right and being healthy is just plain common sense. However, it’s no guaranteed cure or prevention of cancer. Nor is poor living habits a guarantee of contracting cancer. Furthermore, I find Mr. Wilson’s opinions on fruit to be wildly naive… statements such as “it is easily obtained and prepared” make me a tad skeptical about his sources of information. He also seems to ignore that fruit is easily rotted and infected… the slightest bit of damage to any piece of fruit can result in it being inedible inside a day. And, lastly, the cavalier way in which he dismisses ANY argument that disagrees with him forces me to conclude that his desired purpose here is preaching, not debate. Somebody get this guy a soapbox. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/10 "2002-08-24T13:33:59Z")
I know, I was just looking for an excuse to use the phrase “wise-assery”. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/11 "2002-08-24T13:43:51Z")
Can’t you guys read? The title says it all: “CANCER fully explained”. It is “fully” explained and there is nothing more to add or discuss. Now just eat your fruits and vegetables and stay away from any sources of stress. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/12 "2002-08-24T13:48:16Z")
The OP appears to be a gross copyright violation of several portions of other works, esp. as it does not even bother to give any sort of real cite. See the following link to know why I say this - you can find much of the OP in there, word for word. [http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020121horne/020121ch20.html](http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020121horne/020121ch20.html) I think based on this thread, and the previous clusterfuck of a thread, we need a new Great Debate - which is: “Why Does it Take So Much Effort to Be BANNED on the SDMB” 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/13 "2002-08-24T13:49:46Z")
All of that glurge was cut & pasted from [here](http://www.european-vegetarian.org/evu/english/news/news992/health.html). I see that for an added touch of realism, you sprinkled in some typos. I suspect that is why we’re not getting any substantial responses, because **David Wilson** hasn’t yet found them online to cut & paste them here. **1…it provides complete nourishment with the minimum of extarneous substances capable of silting up the tissues.** Please explain the process of tissue silting. The only Google hit I could get was from the above linked site, which is by no means a cite. **2…it is the most easily digested, minimizing the energy required for digestion…thus limiting total calorie intake.** Please give us your definition of “most easily digested”. Plants are largly cellulose, which is indigestible dietary fiber. **3…it is palatable.** Shrug. Your opinion. **4…it is easily obtained and prepared.** I don’t know about you, but I don’t have any pear trees in my back yard. Or any fruit trees of any kind anywhere in my vicinity. We’re not counting crab apples, are we? On the other hand, I do have a wealth of squirrels & pigeons at my disposal. **5…Minimum but adequate protein is provided.** I’d like a short list of protein-rich fruits. Since you assert that fruits in general provide adequate protein, it should not be hard for you to come up with a top-ten list. **6…minimum but adequate essential fats are provided.** Then why do dieticians tell people who need to avoid fat to eat 5-6 portions of fruits & veggies per day? **7…maximum energy is available from what is eaten, with only carbondioxide and water, which are no-toxic,as the by-products.** See #2. Do you assert that cellulose is not a byproduct? What does our body do with it if not excrete it? **8…it provides the body with adequate amounts of pure water.** What’s your point? That anything containing “pure” water is good for us? **9…it results in a favourable alkaline internal state{no cancer possible in presence of alkaline state}.** I’m just thinking out loud here, but I wonder what happens to alkaline levels in food once it gets bathed in hydrochloric acid (pH = 1) in our stomachs. **12…NO consitpation occurs.** What? With all that cellulose? **13…No auto-intoxication** I was about to ask for more info on this, but then I found [here](http://www.european-vegetarian.org/evu/english/news/news992/health.html) [this:](http://healthharmony.8m.com/autointoxication.html) > [@](#): > > Virtually all disease, no matter what its name, is caused by autointoxication. So nevermind, I guess :rolleyes: **14…the body detoxifies** Whatever that means. **15…the blood is clean with low viscosity, there is good circulation with low blood pressur.** Please explain how clean blood differs from dirty blood. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/14 "2002-08-24T14:19:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Wilson \* > CURE=Obviously preventing abnormal blood chemistry by a natural balanced approach to life, including… > 1…Adopt 100% diet of fresh raw fruit and veges{FRUIT being the best food known to man}, ideally organics. Sorry, not possible for me to do. > [@](#): > > 2…supplement the diet with digestive enzymes, properly prescribed. If they’re prescribed, wouldn’t that qualify them as a medicine of some time? See your #5 > [@](#): > > 3…Drink only distilled water[not much water required on a high fruit diet Is the water inside a fruit distilled? > [@](#): > > 4…Avoid air pollution, smoke of any kind. Sorry, not possible for me to do. > [@](#): > > 5…Avoid all medicines{if someone is on chemo…DO NOT JUST DROP YOUR MEDICATION, consult with doctor sympathetic with these recommedations} Sorry, not possible for me to do. > [@](#): > > 6…avoid TV,Computer radiation Sorry, truly not possible for me to do. > [@](#): > > 7…Get adequate exposure to sunlight without wearing glasses and without clothes…DO NOT over-expose. I’m not following this. Do you want me to walk outside naked? Why can’t I wear my glasses? How is ANY amount of UV radiation helpful anyway? I really don’t understand this one. > [@](#): > > 8…remove all sources of stress HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA. Well, at least this thread is helping as a stress relief. > [@](#): > > 10…start light exercise program…and undertake breathing exercises{oxygenates the blood} Oxygenates the blood, eh? No fucking shit. Thanks for the tip there **David Wilson**. All that time I thought I was breathing to expel my body of the evil spirits that invade first borns. Well, looks like I’m going to die before I even get a chance to press “submit.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/15 "2002-08-24T14:31:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\*Well, looks like I’m going to die before I even get a chance to press “submit.” \*\* Thank God you made it, soldier. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/16 "2002-08-24T14:35:46Z")
LOL, when I opened this thread, I was wondering where the punch would be. I read, and read, and then skimmed, and then BANG – there it was! I knew **David Wilson** couldn’t just keep his agenda to himself and talk about some nonpartisan science stuff. No-sir-ee. He had to bring those radical leftist tendencies to the fore. So now he’s not just an enviro-nut, he’s a health-fascist too. Not only is he that, he’s a health-fascist without much in the way of evidence from health journals backing up his pretty extreme suggestions. **David Wilson** has managed to combine pseudo-science with an extremist agenda, and invoked it with holier-than-thou admonitions. One thing I will substantively address: > [@](#): > > \*\*CURE=Obviously preventing abnormal blood chemistry by a natural balanced approach to life, including… > 1…Adopt 100% diet of fresh raw fruit and veges{FRUIT being the best food known to man}, ideally organics. \*\* How is that _natural_? Man is an omnivore by nature, cavemen didn’t go out hunting pear trees all day. You wanna act morally superior about vegetarianism/veganism, go right ahead and you wouldn’t be the only one, but don’t pass it off as _natural_. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/17 "2002-08-24T14:39:05Z")
David Wilson, you’ve crossed the line. If this were the Pit, I’d tell you in myriad ways what you could do with your OP. I can speak from personal experience about how wrong-headed your OP and your cockeyed, parroted thesis is: My wife’s best friend “Jane” passed away just a few weeks ago after an 11 year fight against breast cancer. Over that time we learned much more than we ever wanted to about cancer. For most of her final years, Jane was a vegetarian, worked out religiously and took care of herself in the Granola-crunchy way you described. None of this mattered to her cancer --Jane died. Jane was _also_ under the care of a team led by her Oncologist, which prolonged her life by several years. If her recurrance had been found earlier, they might even have saved her life, but this wasn’t possible. Like gravity, Cancer isn’t what you wish it to be. And modern medicine isn’t wrong-headed just because it doesn’t operate by rules that the eco-vegans find charming. In closing, David, my most sincere wish would be that you have the same opportunity that Jane had, and can experiment on yourself using the methods posted above. Please let us know how the remission works out. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/18 "2002-08-24T15:33:28Z")
I’m totally baffled as to why **DW** , who has presented no medical or scientific credentials, expects anyone to blindly accept his 10-point “cure” as a usable cancer treatment, particularly since there’s no punch line: the OP supplies no information at all confirming that such a regimen actually works. As usual, I will pose a few questions for clarification purposes, and as usual I will probably be ignored. Has the OP or an acquaintance had a cancer occurrence that the OP believes has been cured by such means as “adopting a diet of 100% raw fruit and vegetables” and “avoiding all medicines”? If such has been done, could we have a brief description of the cancer in question, the duration and nature of treatment and the current status of the patient? Independent documentation of the case in the peer-reviewed literature would be nice as well, but I have no realistic expectation that such exists. Oh, and BTW, it’s digestive and respiratory _tract_s. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/19 "2002-08-24T16:32:52Z")
Oh, baby. We have here a devotee of the Toxins Killed The Baby Jesus school of health and cancer prevention. These are the folks who pour various “natural” remedies and supplements into their hapless G.I. tracts in an attempt to “detoxify” their livers (which do quite nicely, thanks, without artificial outside help) and purge their bowels, which are supposedly jam-packed with toxin-festering stool (do a Google search sometime on bowel toxins and John Wayne to see florid examples of this lunacy). To this way of thinking, unfettered by logic or controlled research studies, we can avoid or cure cancer with diet and purgatives. We are of course dealing with grotesque exaggerations and unproven claims. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Wilson \* > **Although they vary greatly in appearance and function, all cells of the body are basically the same.** And apart from the fact that we are completely different, I am exactly the same as a tunafish sandwich.\*\* > [@](#): > > It is an accepted fact that a malignant tumor develops only after an average 8yr period of pre-cancer.\*\* Accepted by whom? Where’d this gem come from? “Dr.” Neunhoeffer?\*\* > [@](#): > > In other words, the degree of malignancy{ie, uncontrollability and rate of growth} is proportional to the degree of de-differentiation and fermentation.\*\* Um, fermentation? I think it’s time for you to re-take Physiology 101, or at least cut all beer out of your diet.\*\* > [@](#): > > 10…Malignant cells carried further in lymph and into main bloodstream, but no metastasis occurs while blood flows freely. > 11…Metastasis commences when malignant cell lodges in coagulated blood in a blocked vessel.\*\* If this were true, anti-coagulants would halt the spread of cancer. \*\* > [@](#): > > DO NOT JUST DROP YOUR MEDICATION… \*\* In your case, this is excellent advice. In fact, I would consult with a trusted health professional about increasing the dosage. If this is the health revolution, count me in as a counter-revolutionary. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358/20 "2002-08-24T16:33:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m totally baffled as to why DW, who has presented no medical or scientific credentials, expects anyone to blindly accept his 10-point “cure” as a usable cancer treatment, particularly since there’s no punch line The thing is, all the pseudoscience in his post smacks me heavily of a bad episode of Star Trek: Just throw in a bunch of nice-sounding words that really don’t mean anything (as Attrayant so nicely pointed out with regards to his “Yay Fruit!” list). Bottom line… I think DW’s taking his information off the side label of a jug of apple juice or bottled water. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cancer-fully-explained/125358.md?page=2)