# Cannabis Extracts for the Primary Treatment of Cancer, Epilepsy, and More **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684 "2013-11-11T22:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/402 "2013-11-18T18:37:26Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Classic. I’ll use this in my “scientific report” on the [Dunning-Kruger effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) (Which I’m sure is familiar to most here, but in case **JKander** is lurking). He’s lurking. He was here at 7:20 am(Pacific). Strangely silent, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/403 "2013-11-18T18:48:02Z")
> [@JKander](#): > > There’s nobody who can argue against this report and shoot it down better than you all. The veracity, the fire, the uncompromising scrutiny of pure scientific minds - **that is what I needed.** The sad reality is that your arguments were blasted into shreds by comparative amateurs. Go up against scientists who make their living in cancer research, and there’ll be nothing left of you but a smoking heap of hemp-scented ashes. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/404 "2013-11-18T18:57:59Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Go up against scientists who make their living in cancer research, and there’ll be nothing left of you but a smoking heap of hemp-scented ashes. But a quick dab of hash oil and he rises like a phoenix! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/405 "2013-11-18T19:28:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But a quick dab of hash oil and he rises like a phoenix! > > Regards, > Shodan That can only end in tears. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/406 "2013-11-18T20:20:17Z")
> [@JKander](#): > > I said it works the majority of times for the majority of cases. You have provided absolutely no valid scientific proof of this claim. > [@JKander](#): > > I make that statement based on the testimonies I’ve seen and read, the patients and caregivers I’ve talked with, the overwhelming nature of the science, and my general experience. These things upon which you’ve relied in no way support your original claim that “it works the majority of times for the majority of cases.” As is usual not just for the pot advocates but for most “alternative medicine” worshipers, you have absolutely no idea whatsoever what constitutes scientific evidence. This is why the “cannabis for all forever!” crowd will NEVER BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. If you would subject your pet plant to actual, well-controlled, scientifically valid experimentation, there might actually end up being some support for your claims. But your continuous refusal to learn the slightest thing about how scientific evidence is gathered merely makes you, and the other members of the cannabis crowd, look foolish. You are your own worst enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/407 "2013-11-18T21:04:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So having your ass chewed off and handed to you has convinced you that you are going to win the next time? Ooooookayyyyy… > > Regards, > Shodan What he has learned is that he is intellectually capable of ignoring and rationalizing every piece of evidence, logic, and rational thought leveled against him. Further, he has learned that he has no unsurmountable moral qualms about the level of self-delusion required for him to do this or the apathy toward the potential suffering and death that would be caused if his mission succeeds. WINNING! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/408 "2013-11-19T10:35:46Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The sad reality is that your arguments were blasted into shreds by comparative amateurs. > > Go up against scientists who make their living in cancer research, and there’ll be nothing left of you but a smoking heap of hemp-scented ashes. Well, if being ignored does that… Any serious research scientist doesn’t have the time to waste on something like that. They’d look over the first page or two, see the pathetic evidence present, and then just stop looking at anything **JKander** ever had to say again. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/409 "2013-11-19T14:35:49Z")
I had been studiously ignoring this thread since its inception. For some reason, this morning I figured I should probably take a peek. I made it as far as post #91 where **JKander** is recounting how his friend, Dennis, developed prostate Ca. Let me quote what happened next: > [@JKander](#): > > When he got prostate cancer, he didn’t want to do chemotherapy or radiation . . . > > For three months he used cannabis butter, a relatively weak extract, and it reduced the size of his tumors. Then three months of full strength cannabis oil, and it was gone. The medical documentation for this is in my report. The only traditional treatment Dennis used was Lupron, an androgen antagonist whiich can potentially slow cancer growth, but not stop it and certainly not shrink it. (emphasis added) What a perfect illustration of why (and I am sorry to say this because you seem like a nice enough fellow) you are full of shit when talk of this ‘miracle’. Two points: a) [Lupron, even by itself, can shrink prostate cancers](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3918369) (the linked reference is an old one to show that we’ve known of its efficacy for almost thirty years! And, do note that “objective response” as mentioned in the link includes shrinkage of the tumor by 50 percent or more.) b) your claim is typical of quack treatment proponents. That is, any downstream benefit is attributed to the snake oil in question and ignores the fact the patient also received conventional therapy. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/410 "2013-11-19T19:29:39Z")
You only got that far before you were compelled to respond? Settle in, Karl. It’s going to be a long read. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/411 "2013-11-19T19:33:46Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > You only got that far before you were compelled to respond? Settle in, Karl. It’s going to be a long read. I’m surprised he got that far. And we seem to have scared off the OP. He’s taken another peek without posting. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/412 "2013-11-19T23:29:15Z")
He said he was done responding. I guess there’s only so much of your own thread you can have shoved in uncomfortable places before you start feeling self-conscious about it. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/413 "2013-11-20T01:21:47Z")
It could be worse. In the late eighteen hundreds, a man calling himself The King of Pain was selling a miracle ointment in San Francisco. He claimed that not only would it harden your body agains any painful ailment, it would harden your skin enough that you would no longer need to wear clothes. The active ingredient in the ointment? Aconite. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/414 "2013-11-20T02:14:10Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > It could be worse. In the late eighteen hundreds, a man calling himself The King of Pain was selling a miracle ointment in San Francisco. He claimed that not only would it harden your body agains any painful ailment, it would harden your skin enough that you would no longer need to wear clothes. > > The active ingredient in the ointment? Aconite. I remember him from one of Neil Gaiman’s _Sandman_ stories: > [@](#): > > [The King of Pain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Sandman_characters#Historical_figures) was a itinerant healer and, liniment salesman in 19th century San Francisco who made a fortune peddling his “medicine” (An aconite liniment) from a pitch at Third, and Mission streets. A habitue of Martin, and Horton’s (An old San Francisco saloon), and an occasional visitor at the Cobweb Palace, was probably the most ornate personage in the San Francisco of his time. He told those who bought the liniment he sold outside the Pacific Clinical Infirmary that if they covered their bodies with the ointment as he did, they would have no need for clothes. As he grew wealthier from the sales of his aconite ointment, he bought himself a coal-black coach and six snow-white horses to draw it. He himself wore a bright red union suit, a heavy velour robe, a ostrich-feathered plug hat, and a heavy sword. He once gave the Emperor Norton a new suit. He lost it all at the gaming tables, and ended his life a suicide. In the comic book The Sandman, issue 31 (“Three Septembers and a January”, reprinted in Fables and Reflections), the King of Pain is one of Desire’s undead minions. He tried to tempt Emperor Norton into betraying his dignity for his desires (in the form of Worldly Power, Wealth, An Estate, and Noble Wife). Norton retains his dignity, and refuses the offers, saying he is content ruling his city, that he has all he needs. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/415 "2013-11-20T08:07:44Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > He’s lurking. He was here at 7:20 am(Pacific). > Strangely silent, though. What about 4:20? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/416 "2013-11-20T14:06:29Z")
When/if he comes back, do you think he’ll start off with telling us how happy he is with our responses again? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/417 "2013-11-20T14:48:57Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > That is, any downstream benefit is attributed to the snake oil in question… _Please!_ He’s selling _cannabis_ oil, not _snake_ oil! > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > He said he was done responding. I guess there’s only so much of your own thread you can have shoved in uncomfortable places before you start feeling self-conscious about it. Cannabis oil will cure that painful feeling! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/418 "2013-11-20T14:58:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What about 4:20? He must live in [Rarotonga](http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=279). Or in case I missed the time zone by one, there’s also [Midway](http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=1890). Not much else out there… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/419 "2013-11-20T15:07:55Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > He must live in [Rarotonga](http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=279). > > Or in case I missed the time zone by one, there’s also [Midway](http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=1890). > > Not much else out there… He’s involved with an Airsoft store in Maryland. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/420 "2013-11-20T15:47:20Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > He’s involved with an Airsoft store in Maryland. I think you missed the reference there. Google “4:20”. I was riffing off of what time zone he must be in for it to be 4:20, if he was last active at 7:20 PST. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/421 "2013-11-20T15:49:40Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I think you missed the reference there. Google “4:20”. I was riffing off of what time zone he must be in for it to be 4:20, if he was last active at 7:20 PST. I know what 4:20 refers to, I didn’t connect where you were going with the time zones. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684.md?page=22)