# Cannabis Extracts for the Primary Treatment of Cancer, Epilepsy, and More **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684 "2013-11-11T22:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/462 "2013-11-22T04:18:11Z")
They cure pain. > [@](#): > > And how many are for undisclosed side effects or are even for a valid reason? > Look at the ruckus over vaccines. Seems it’s usually for killing people, which generally comes in the form of a really bad side effect. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/463 "2013-11-22T04:36:04Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > Because I have other things to do with my life than argue points on a message board, not all pot smokers sit around justifying cannabis use to strangers on the internet. Have you looked at the link I added? Things like the fact that the U.S. government holds the patent on cannabinoids is interesting. [http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6630507.html](http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6630507.html) . > > Here’s a double-blind dealing with anxiety from the University of Sao Paulo [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21307846](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21307846) > > There are all kinds of controlled studies here in this list [http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/studies.htm#\_Toc307501841](http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/studies.htm#_Toc307501841) > > As I said before I really don’t have time to read through all of this, but feel free to take a look yourself and draw your own conclusions. 1. If you can’t be bothered to go through the links you provide us to give us the best examples, why the hell should _we_ bother to do it for you? 2. Anxiety? _Really??_ You come in here to back up the claims of a marketeer that pot is a damn-near universal cure all, and you have the sheer gall to present us with a study that shows us that it sometimes alleviates _anxiety_? Let’s poll the audience on that one, shall we?: _Who here needs a double-blind study to figure out that pot can make one a very mellow fellow?_ ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/464 "2013-11-22T04:54:09Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > They cure pain. > > Seems it’s usually for killing people, which generally comes in the form of a really bad side effect. Name a few. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/465 "2013-11-22T04:58:11Z")
**JFluvly** , do you have any idea how many drugs have promising prior plausibility before then proceeding to completely bomb in clinical trials? It’s a pretty common factor. And yeah, pot is great for treatment of anxiety (if you ignore all side-effects). I don’t think anyone would deny that; we’ve all seen what happens to most people when they take a few drags on a doobie. It’d be like proscribing crystal meth for narcolepsy or heroin for chronic pain - it’s _probably going to solve the problem_. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/466 "2013-11-22T05:04:23Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > I have other things to do with my life than argue points on a message board Where have I heard this old chestnut before? Why, it’s a classic wooist comeback. It would carry more force from someone who hasn’t posted voluminously to little effect. Let’s see, what other classic rhetorical devices can we spot? > [@](#): > > Have you looked at the link I added? Things like the fact that the U.S. government holds the patent on cannabinoids is interesting. Ah, the government conspiracy angle. Always useful. And look, the “Science wuz wrong before” gambit. All the old favorites are materializing! Did you know they laughed at Galileo? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/467 "2013-11-22T05:15:28Z")
They also laughed at Bozo the Pothead. …I’m pretty sure that’s not the actual quote… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/468 "2013-11-22T05:19:57Z")
You don’t have to prove an invention works to get a patent. [However, here’s the patent.](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6630507.PN.&OS=PN/6630507&RS=PN/6630507) ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/469 "2013-11-22T06:03:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Name a few. Avandia > **[1026.full.pdf](https://www.cmaj.ca/content/cmaj/182/10/1026.full.pdf)** > > 55.16 KB ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/470 "2013-11-22T06:05:01Z")
> [@](#): > > f you can’t be bothered to go through the links you provide us to give us the best examples, why the hell should we bother to do it for you? Your the one that wants to know > [@](#): > > 1. Anxiety? It’s a long list, that was close to the top ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/471 "2013-11-22T06:06:03Z")
> [@](#): > > if you ignore all side-effects What side effects? ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/472 "2013-11-22T06:11:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Where have I heard this old chestnut before? Sorry, I have a life, I don’t have all day and night to play online. > [@](#): > > It would carry more force from someone who hasn’t posted voluminously to little effect What the hell is that supposed to mean. > [@](#): > > And look, the “Science wuz wrong before” gambit. All the old favorites are materializing Science has been wrong many times, are you disputing that? > [@](#): > > You don’t have to prove an invention works to get a patent. > However, here’s the patent. Yep, same as the one in my link, good job. > [@](#): > > Ah, the government conspiracy angle. Always useful I said nothing of a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/473 "2013-11-22T06:12:11Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > Avandia > > [http://www.cmaj.ca/content/182/10/1026.full.pdf](http://www.cmaj.ca/content/182/10/1026.full.pdf) Looking closer: [http://www.drugwatch.com/avandia/lawsuit.php](http://www.drugwatch.com/avandia/lawsuit.php) > [@](#): > > During clinical trials, more people died as a result of a cardiovascular event taking Avandia than those taking a placebo, studies show. Despite these findings, Avandia’s black-box warning label did not mention an increased risk of cardiovascular death until the FDA warned about the risks in 2007. So basically, this was straight up academic fraud, being justifiably punished. Nice. How common are cases like this as opposed to cases like parents suing because they think their children got autism from scheduled vaccines? But here’s the key point: without that “scientific methodology”, _nobody would have known_. You would have had a bunch of heart conditions and no way to link them to this drug. Indeed, simply _reviewing the scientific clinical trials_ was enough in this case to show plausible cause, because the problem here was not “this was not tested well” or “this was not tested adequately”. It was “we underestimated (perhaps intentionally) a detrimental side-effect”. This is not an excuse to waive the scientific method with medicine. This is a reason to _strengthen it_, and its requirements. Which leads me to this: > [@JFLuvly](#): > > What side effects? _ **Good fucking question.** _ How would we know? There certainly haven’t been much in the realm of tests, and often detrimental side-effects don’t come out until quite a while after the fact, or until after the medicine has stopped being taken. This is why peer-reviewed, placebo-controlled, double-blind clinical trials are so important - because without them, we have _no idea what works and what doesn’t_, or at what cost. ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/474 "2013-11-22T06:15:03Z")
I have to go to bed, since you folks have all this spare time to do this, find me some double blind studies to prove that it doesn’t work. Not that I really care, or that you will be able to find them (I’m assuming), but so that you have an legitimate argument that scientifically says it does not work. ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/475 "2013-11-22T06:19:18Z")
> [@](#): > > How would we know? People have been using cannabis for thousands of years, I’m pretty sure something critical would have shown up by now. I’m not saying that problems don’t exist, they just don’t appear to be all that bad. ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/476 "2013-11-22T06:21:25Z")
OK Avandia may not have been the best example, but it’s late and I am rushing. I mean come on, class action lawsuits because of drugs are flashing all over american television. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/477 "2013-11-22T06:32:13Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > I have to go to bed, since you folks have all this spare time to do this, find me some double blind studies to prove that it doesn’t work. Not that I really care, or that you will be able to find them (I’m assuming), but so that you have an legitimate argument that scientifically says it does not work. [Freddie Prinze]Not my job, man.[/FP]_Your_ extraordinary claim, so _you_ come up with the goods. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/478 "2013-11-22T06:37:01Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > I have to go to bed, since you folks have all this spare time to do this, find me some double blind studies to prove that it doesn’t work. Not that I really care, or that you will be able to find them (I’m assuming), but so that you have an legitimate argument that scientifically says it does not work. Wow, you really don’t get it? _Nobody is saying it doesn’t work_. We’re saying there’s no decent evidence that it does, and that we aren’t going to believe it works until such evidence is provided. Christ, at least **JKander** _tried_. > [@JFLuvly](#): > > OK Avandia may not have been the best example, but it’s late and I am rushing. I mean come on, class action lawsuits because of drugs are flashing all over american television. Class action lawsuits like [these](http://www.whale.to/vaccines/fresno7.html). Or [this one](http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/omnibus-autism-proceeding). But that said… are they? And even then, _that’s not good enough_. You don’t just need “here is a class action lawsuit against a drug”. You need “here is a drug where the scientific method failed to spot or predict side-effects or turned up a false positive for efficacy”. The latter quite simply does not exist. The former… Thalidomide, maybe? I don’t know much about that particular case. Might be your example. But even that’s just one example, and a mediocre one from over 50 years ago at that. There’s a reason we have this scientific process in place to evaluate drugs - it’s reliably and indisputably effective to an almost ridiculous degree. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/479 "2013-11-22T11:26:44Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > People have been using cannabis for thousands of years, I’m pretty sure something critical would have shown up by now. I’m not saying that problems don’t exist, they just don’t appear to be all that bad. [Side effects of cannabis.](http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-947-MARIJUANA.aspx?activeIngredientId=947&activeIngredientName=MARIJUANA) > [@](#): > > Use of marijuana can cause dry mouth, nausea, vomiting, dry or red eyes, heart and blood pressure problems, lung problems, impaired mental functioning, headache, dizziness, numbness, panic reactions, hallucinations, flashbacks, depression, and sexual problems. > Special Precautions & Warnings: > Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Marijuana is UNSAFE when taken by mouth or smoked during pregnancy. Marijuana passes through the placenta and can slow the growth of the fetus. Marijuana use during pregnancy is also associated with childhood leukemia. Using marijuana, either by mouth or by inhalation is LIKELY UNSAFE during breast-feeding. The dronabinol (THC) in marijuana passes into breast milk. And so much more. > [@JFLuvly](#): > > OK Avandia may not have been the best example, but it’s late and I am rushing. I mean come on, class action lawsuits because of drugs are flashing all over american television. You can sue anyone for anything. Doesn’t mean it’s legit. Most if not nearly all are driven by the belief that medicine should be without side effects. And don’t forget who gets the bulk of the settlement in a class action suit. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/480 "2013-11-22T14:42:54Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > OK Avandia may not have been the best example, but it’s late and I am rushing. I mean come on, class action lawsuits because of drugs are flashing all over american television. So now the new standard of evidence is “they talk about it a lot on American TV”? I remember when X-Files was popular, and how flying saucers kept popping up in our skies all the time. That was crazy! ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/481 "2013-11-22T15:14:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Your extraordinary claim, so you come up with the goods. What extraordinary claims? It worked for me. > [@](#): > > it’s reliably and indisputably effective to an almost ridiculous degree Tell that to these people. > **[Class-action suit against Pfizer Canada over anti-smoking drug Champix to...](https://financialpost.com/legal-post/class-action-suit-against-pfizer-canada-over-anti-smoking-drug-champix-to-proceed)** > > The plaintiffs allege the drug maker failed to warn Canadians taking the drug that they could suffer psychiatric side effects such as depression, anxiety and suicid… [http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Labour-Industry/2012/01/23/class-action-suit-vioxx/](http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Labour-Industry/2012/01/23/class-action-suit-vioxx/) [https://www.merchantlaw.com/classactions/accutane.php](https://www.merchantlaw.com/classactions/accutane.php) > [@](#): > > Side effects of cannabis. Seriously? Let’s see some cites for this. Have you read all of that webmd report? On pregnancy… > **[Drugs and Prisons, Jails, Probation, and Parole | Drug Policy Facts](https://www.drugpolicyfacts.org/chapter/drug_prison)** > > Information and statistics about drugs and the US carceral system: prisons, jails, parole and probation. > [@](#): > > Most if not nearly all are driven by the belief that medicine should be without side effects. You are contradicting yourself here, and once again I personally consider death to be a little more than a side effect. > [@](#): > > So now the new standard of evidence is “they talk about it a lot on American TV”? I remember when X-Files was popular, and how flying saucers kept popping up in our skies all the time. That was crazy! Is that the best you’ve got? You know exactly what I meant by what I said. This type of response is so typical for here, always go to belittling when you disagree and have nothing else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684.md?page=25)