# Cannabis Extracts for the Primary Treatment of Cancer, Epilepsy, and More **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684 "2013-11-11T22:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/41 "2013-11-12T02:41:44Z")
From here: [Care2 is the world's largest social network for good, a community of over 40 million people standing together, starting petitions and sharing stories that inspire action.](http://www.care2.com/greenliving/bob-marleys-death-was-the-cancer-preventable.html) First sentence: Many today may be aware that Bob Marley died from cancer, and that he died very prematurely. He was only 36 when cancer killed him. How’s that for anecdotal evidence? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![JKander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@JKander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKander)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/42 "2013-11-12T02:48:57Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > From here: [Care2 is the world's largest social network for good, a community of over 40 million people standing together, starting petitions and sharing stories that inspire action.](http://www.care2.com/greenliving/bob-marleys-death-was-the-cancer-preventable.html) > > First sentence: Many today may be aware that Bob Marley died from cancer, and that he died very prematurely. He was only 36 when cancer killed him. > > How’s that for anecdotal evidence? :smack: It’s important to note that smoking cannabis does nothing to combat cancer and very little for protection. Many cannabis smokers die of cancer every day. It’s substantial ingestion of high-quality extracted oils that protects and treats cancer. There have been many things no one has challenged me on yet. No one has challenged the medical documentation of terminal cancer patients now in remission, or Dr. Courtney’s brain cancer success, or Dr. Melamede’s documented skin cancer success, or the incredible experiences of River Rock and Realm of Caring. The results those two organizations alone have achieved is stunning. River Rock is even healing paralysis. If you guys want to see **serious** results right now that by themselves are powerful, visit [http://riverrockcolorado.com/learn.php](http://riverrockcolorado.com/learn.php) to see their videos. You must invest time in researching this to believe it, but if you do so, you’ll see the truth. All of these results are summarized in the report, of course, so that saves time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/43 "2013-11-12T02:57:31Z")
> [@JKander](#): > > It is used for recreation throughout the world and is so common, but most people don’t understand its full use. The availability and cultural significance alone makes this very different. I don’t see how this is relevant to the question of whether it works or not. Given how widely grown and used the stuff is, I’m tempted to say you should have more anecdotes. > [@](#): > > Then there’s the science, which indicates that cannabinoids can kill virtually any kind of cancer cell in cultures. A lot of things kill cancer cells in cultures. It’s a starting point for research, but it doesn’t prove much. > [@](#): > > There’s also evidence that the human body is literally programmed to have cannabinoids kill cancer cells, because some cancer cells have higher expressions of cannabinoid receptors than healthy cells No, that’s not what that means. Tumor cells (and all cells) have plenty of kind of receptors. It doesn’t prove anything unique about cannabinoids. > [@](#): > > There’s also evidence that cannabinoids benefit virtually any disease imaginable. This is the kind of thing sensible people should be skeptical of. Nothing is good for everything- that’s snake oil stuff. And in general the evidence here is weak. > [@](#): > > And the experiential results are truly overwhelming. I encourage you to please analyze these with your minds and hearts, as these can’t just be dismissed as “anecdotal.” These _are_ anecdotes, though. And ideally people should be looking at this stuff rationally, not with their hearts (or wallets). We all want cancer treatments that work better. That doesn’t mean we should go by hope alone. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/44 "2013-11-12T02:58:12Z")
Well, with this amount of miraculous healing going on, it won’t be suppressed much longer by that evil medical establishment. Did you come to this site because you thought the “Straight Dope” was a site for cannabis enthusiasts? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/45 "2013-11-12T03:02:27Z")
> [@JKander](#): > > I also need to reiterate I understand how crazy this sounds, Budget Player. And the whole fountain of youth thing? Do you understand how crazy _that_ sounds? > [@](#): > > That cannabis can do all these incredible things, and it’s not out yet, and I’m here talking about it on this forum. This is only one path to change, as this is a large forum with very smart people and I wanted you guys to see this and discuss it. I LOVE THIS. I love being challenged on all of these issues, and I’ll show all of you the truth of this. Great. You tell me when you get your Nobel, and I’ll go buy a tutu and some frilly leggings. > [@](#): > > I discuss in my conclusion why this isn’t out yet. I hope you don’t hold it against me that I didn’t read your report in full. It’s a lot to ask, especially given that your prior credibility is basically negative due to your background (Phoenixtears). > [@](#): > > General ignorance and disbelief is part of it The general disbelief has a lot to do with the fact that this pattern drawn is the exact same pattern we see in god knows how many baloney quack fixes. It’s based primarily on testimonials, with very little actual hard evidence. It’s not published in peer-reviewed journals. It makes claims which are patently absurd on their face - not necessarily wrong, mind you, but absurd. > [@](#): > > And if you examine the remarkable scientific studies, the peer-reviewed ones showing the plethora of mechanisms by which cannabinoids exert therapeutic effects, along with all the experiences, it’s just undeniable stuff. Cannabinoids have a lot of theraputic effects. By all means, show us the studies. By all means, conduct further research. By all means, publish your results in peer-reviewed journals and invite _actual oncologists_ to look over your work. But don’t push out a half-baked, over-long report (did _anyone_ here read it in full? Anyone?) that seems to be a little heavy on appeals to emotion and personal anecdotes and offer it up to a group of people who, ostensibly, are _not_ oncologists, or indeed medical doctors of any kind, or indeed scientists of any kind. That’s essentially quack propagation 101. When I look at the studies you cite, I admit - I often don’t understand what they mean. But given your background, I am not taking your word for it. > [@JKander](#): > > My claims are different because I’m not the one making the claims. I’ve simply assembled the claims of many other people and made one metaclaim, so to say. Unlike other treatments, which had one main proponent, this movement has dozens of small and large leaders alike. At a glance… > [@](#): > > Shona Banda, Aamann Degarth, Dennis Hill, David Triplett, Kyle Marsh, Tony Verzura, the Stanley brothers, Dr. Robert Melamede, Dr. William Courtney, Regina Nelson and Mark Pedersen… [Conspiracy nutter with no formal medical training](http://www.amazon.com/Live-Free-Die-Reclaim-Country/dp/1449045553), [shamanic nutter with no formal medical training](http://radio.rumormillnews.com/podcast/2011/06/02/aamanndegarth/), [has his own Whale.to page](http://www.whale.to/a/dennis_hill.html), [not even sure if you’re serious at this point](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm0Jq9bj98), couldn’t find anything on Kyle Marsh or Tony Verzura, [sells cannabis but has zero actual medical credentials](http://realmofcaringfoundation.org/), first actual doctor on the list ([6 articles on pubmed - 3 opinion pieces, 3 papers with little to do with cannabinoids](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Robert+Melamede)), second actual doctor on the list ([no published papers about cannabinoids](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=William+Courtney)), and two more nobodies. …Yeah. Nice star-studded lineup you have there. > [@](#): > > And the science really is amazing, and no one has challenged me yet on the human body being programmed to kill cancer cells. The science totally suggests that, and that’s why it makes sense the clinically-proved effects would transfer to humans. …Okay, cite. > [@](#): > > that’s just a small sample of all the people leading in their own way. It’s not just one person doing this, it’s many people using many different types of extracts, _all_ observing miraculous results. It’s that level of replication which makes this different. Of course, if you ask Jim Humble about his program, he’ll claim the same thing - that he sees the same degree of miraculous results from people drinking what amounts to diluted bleach (no, seriously). What’s _missing_, from this just like from Humble’s, is _any sort of verification_. Any verification that these effects work this way. We see tons of stories like this, but they prove very hard to verify. Maybe yours is real; if it is, you’re doing yourself and everyone else a massive disservice by presenting this to _us_, rather than, I dunno, _JAMA_, or _PLOS_, or even _Nature_. It really all comes back to this: you tell me when you get your Nobel, and I’ll go buy a tutu and some frilly leggings. I’m not an oncologist; I’m not as educated in this subject as some. But I have a _damn_ good bullshit meter. And when something like this is having so much trouble getting into peer-reviewed journals despite supposedly being so revolutionary that the people involved resort to essentially claiming that there’s some conspiracy, then that sets it off like nobody’s business. ---
**Author:** ![JKander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@JKander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKander)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/46 "2013-11-12T03:14:07Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Well, with this amount of miraculous healing going on, it won’t be suppressed much longer by that evil medical establishment. > Did you come to this site because you thought the “Straight Dope” was a site for cannabis enthusiasts? Interestingly enough I did think this was a site for cannabis enthusiasts at first, but honestly am glad that it wasn’t. I’m glad it’s more a site like this, and I’m truly impressed by the challenges I’m seeing from you all. Thank you for analyzing this with the rigor expected for such monumental claims. I also see this forum as one possible path - that of the intelligent people here, someone can do something. At the very least, I simply desire to debate with people about this, and I know that good will come of it somehow. You’re right in regards to the people I cited. Most have no formal medical training or have published few papers. But they are all experiencing and delivering amazing results with cannabis. The thing is, you don’t need to be a doctor to eliminate cancer. You can literally be a janitor who extracts some cannabis oil with Everclear in your closet. That’s what makes this so different, that anyone can do it. If you listen to the results so many have achieved - being on the brink of death, and recovering nearly instantly with cannabis oil - it’s clearly not a coincidence. I also need to point out that I’m not Rick Simpson, and while I am webmaster of PhoenixTears.ca, I don’t necessarily agree with everything he’s said. That fountain of youth stuff included. There’s a lot of disagreement within this movement about a lot of things, and there’s actually many people who strongly dislike or even hate Rick for some of the things he’s said. Even the cannabis oil movement is divided, but we all agree that cannabis extracts can eliminate cancer in humans, and now more people are starting to see that. I refer to dozens of scientific studies in my report. The trend is that cannabinoids are therapeutically implicated in virtually every disease. And that’s what makes this harder to believe, because of the fact it works against so much, that’s what creates this disbelief. But because of the fundamental nature of the endocannabinoid system, and the ability of cannabinoids to restore homeostasis, that is apparently why it works against nearly anything. And it’s not just one study indicating these things - over decades, cannabinoids have been implicated in healing so many diseases and providing regulatory functions. Endocannabinoid systems are present in all vertebrates and originated early in evolution. This is straight out of the peer-reviewed research. It’s because that even endocannabinoids like anandamide kill cancer cells that it makes sense externally administered phytocannabinoids would also work. And the higher expressions of cannabinoid receptors is only suggestive of a last-resort protective effort, it doesn’t prove it but the evidence suggests that’s why the cancer cells have these higher levels. One study also shows that liver cancer patients with higher expressions of cannabinoid receptors have better disease-free survival rates than patients with lower expression levels. So in general, the evidence supports that cannabinoids are designed to heal cancer at the most fundamental levels. Also, that Jim Humble stuff, Miracle Mineral Supplement, seems terrible. “Extremely nasty stuff, and the medical advice given is that anyone who has this product should stop using it immediately and throw it away. In Canada it was banned after causing a life-threatening reaction.” You won’t find stuff like this about cannabis oil. It’s not even on the FDA’s 187 Fake Cancer Cures page, because it’s not fake 🙂 [http://www.fda.gov/drugs/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/enforcementactivitiesbyfda/ucm171057.htm](http://www.fda.gov/drugs/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/enforcementactivitiesbyfda/ucm171057.htm) I also don’t believe there is a conspiracy to suppress this medicine. Rick Simpson and many others believe such, but I simply think it’s a combination of disbelief, ignorance, regulatory, social and cultural barriers. It’s a very complex issue that I can’t even begin to understand about why this isn’t out yet, but the Sanjay Gupta documentary about Charlotte Figi really increased awareness. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/47 "2013-11-12T03:19:31Z")
So, **Kander** , what is **your** level of scientific expertise to be judging the merits of these claims? Highest degree achieved in academia, and in which subject area? It sounds like you are an IT guy (not that there’s anything wrong with it!) Also, we will note you didn’t come clean about the lack of academic bona fides in your breathlessly touted sources until challenged. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/48 "2013-11-12T03:23:16Z")
> [@JKander](#): > > The thing is, you don’t need to be a doctor to eliminate cancer. You can literally be a janitor who extracts some cannabis oil with Everclear in your closet. That’s what makes this so different, that anyone can do it. Moonshine treatment for cancer. No, that’s not a scary thought at all. > [@](#): > > If you listen to the results so many have achieved - being on the brink of death, and recovering nearly instantly with cannabis oil - it’s clearly not a coincidence. I don’t think you understand how hard actual scientists have to work to prevent coincidences and randomness from interfering with their results. ‘I know eight people who were cured and maybe four or six who weren’t?’ Talk about unconvincing! ---
**Author:** ![JKander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@JKander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKander)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/49 "2013-11-12T03:28:15Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > So, **Kander** , what is **your** level of scientific expertise to be judging the merits of these claims? Highest degree achieved in academia, and in which subject area? It sounds like you are an IT guy (not that there’s anything wrong with it!) > Also, we will note you didn’t come clean about the lack of academic bona fides in your breathlessly touted sources until challenged. There are many academics in this movement, all the researchers who have done the studies showing cannabinoids therapeutic effectiveness in culture/animal studies. They are as much a part of this movement as anyone, and their expertise has been extremely critical in providing scientific foundations. Dr. Melamede and Dr. Courtney, while not having published extensive material, have done a lot of great work. So what is **my** level of expertise, you ask? I am a 22-year old who just graduated from the University of Maryland, College Park with a Bachelor’s degree in Marketing. I also deliver sandwiches for Jimmy John’s. It’s funny, when I went to the Reform Conference in Denver to share my report, there were several times where I joked about being a simple sandwich delivery person, yet telling these people the cure for cancer. But the reception was surprisingly well, from doctors, lawyers, executive directors, researchers, policy activists, dispensary workers, and more. The evidence is simply overwhelming, to anyone who takes the time to read it. I am sorry the report is so long, but to support this magnitude of claims, you need a lot of evidence. That’s just how it works. Interestingly enough I already feel the report is outdated because just the last two weeks have been incredible, especially with the latest news of new Stanley patients. Nine out of eleven patients with severe forms of epilepsy experiencing 90-100% reductions in seizures with high-CBD oil, when nothing else worked… just that alone is incredible, and it’s only the beginning. This news came out after my report, and is further evidence that these results will keep being replicated until it’s finally taken seriously. Although my credentials are not traditionally impressive, I’ve been in this movement for over five years, and the evidence I’ve collected, regardless of my personal identity, stands alone. And although I don’t understand the specifics of every scientific study I analyze, I understand the most important parts. In the conclusion section of each study, the authors state in relatively plain English what the conclusion was. This cannabinoid induced apoptosis, inhibited angiogensis, stopped metastasis, down-regulated the ID-1 gene, provided postsynaptic feedback, etc. It’s not hard for anyone to understand. When they get into the real crazy stuff, like the specific protein channel pathways cannabinoids work through, that’s where my lack of expertise causes problems, but in the general stuff, even a teenager could understand. ---
**Author:** ![JKander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@JKander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKander)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/50 "2013-11-12T03:33:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Moonshine treatment for cancer. No, that’s not a scary thought at all. > > I don’t think you understand how hard actual scientists have to work to prevent coincidences and randomness from interfering with their results. ‘I know eight people who were cured and maybe four or six who weren’t?’ Talk about unconvincing! It’s important to note that the alcohol is evaporated off. Alcohol-based tinctures were used in medicine for thousands of years, and still today. That popular flower-based tincture Rescue Remedy is extracted with alcohol. It’s just a good solvent, and if there’s residue, it’s not that big a deal, compared with petro-solvents where even just a small amont can cause serious problems. A drop of alcohol left over likely won’t cause harm. Also, the eight people cured of skin cancer were just the skin cancer cases, and they are very compelling. If you analyze the cases in the report, it’s easy to see these aren’t random coincidences - to say so requires a lot of mental gymnastics. All in all, I’d say I’ve personally seen well over 150 successes for various conditions, and heard distributors I know refer to hundreds more. Not everybody records their testimonial, even the dozens of experiences I have in my report are just a small section of this movement. I haven’t personally collected every testimonial and haven’t included all the testimonials I do have, because I believe the report, at its length of 100 pages, is enough to convince people that this is real. And I guarantee, if anybody takes the time to read every word in it, you’ll see the substance to this. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/51 "2013-11-12T03:34:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **JKander** : > > To put numbers on it, I’ve probably seen about 4-6 “failures” - that is, where oil could not kill the cancer, and only secondary effects were observed, like reduced pain, better sense of well-being, reduced or stopped growth, etc. So, you expect people to buy medicines from someone who can’t even count up to six? This is why you need actual studies, not just anecdotes. You think the number of failures is only about five… But you haven’t actually been keeping count. Maybe there are more that you’re just not remembering off the top of your head. Maybe there are a lot more. Likewise, you think that there’s some number of successes (extrapolating from the “4-6 failures” and “80-90% success”, that’d be about 20-50 successes), but maybe there are less than that. And then you have to ask, were those people taking any other medicines, or pursuing any other treatment? If so, then how do you know if it was your treatment that did the trick, and not the other ones? If not, then how can you justify keeping your patients away from treatments that are known (known, mind you, not just guessed) to have some success? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/52 "2013-11-12T03:39:33Z")
> [@JKander](#): > > It’s important to note that the alcohol is evaporated off. Alcohol-based tinctures were used in medicine for thousands of years, and still today. You say that a lot. 😛 I wasn’t talking about the alcohol, though. I was talking about your statement about anybody being able to cure his own cancer at home. > [@](#): > > If you analyze the cases in the report, it’s easy to see these aren’t random coincidences - to say so requires a lot of mental gymnastics. How do you know that? > [@](#): > > All in all, I’d say I’ve personally seen well over 150 successes for various conditions, and heard distributors I know refer to hundreds more. Not everybody records their testimonial You have a talent for saying things that reduce my confidence. Do you understand how important the rigorous and controlled collection of data is in real science? > [@](#): > > I believe the report, at its length of 100 pages, is enough to convince people that this is real. Length does not = convincing. > [@](#): > > And I guarantee, if anybody takes the time to read every word in it, you’ll see the substance to this. I’m trying not to make a terrible pun about substances. Stop tempting me. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/53 "2013-11-12T03:49:19Z")
I’m sorry, but I don’t think you have the necessary background in the sciences to make pronouncements about the evidence as published. As noted upthread, a lot of things in a petri dish will kill cancer cells. You came to a website you thought was pot enthusiasts to do marketing. I’m out. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/54 "2013-11-12T03:56:00Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > As noted upthread, a lot of things in a petri dish will kill cancer cells. And non-cancerous cells, too. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/55 "2013-11-12T04:28:47Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Cannabinols have certain well-documented positive effects. And when consumed regularly in large doses along with unevaporated Everclear mixed with grape Kool-Aid (AKA: Purple Jesus) it might even cause you to forget you have terminal cancer. **JKander** , you and I are about the same age, so I’m going to go into full condescension mode and tell you some things. Dope is great fun and it has some medicinal qualities we know about, and it may have others we don’t yet know, but nothing is the magical cure-all you describe. And nothing can be, because cancer is not a monolithic disease with a single cause like, say, smallpox. Believing cannabis is like that is, frankly, childish, and 1970 was a long time ago. It’s time to put your Cheech and Chong thinking behind you and learn more about what it can and can NOT do before you put any more of your readers’ lives in danger by spewing dangerous bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![JKander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@JKander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKander)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/56 "2013-11-12T04:33:26Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > I’m sorry, but I don’t think you have the necessary background in the sciences to make pronouncements about the evidence as published. As noted upthread, a lot of things in a petri dish will kill cancer cells. > You came to a website you thought was pot enthusiasts to do marketing. > I’m out. That’s right, like how bleach kills any cancer cells but obviously wouldn’t work in humans. And as I stated, I did initially think this was cannabis related but had found this forum because it was listed on the [biggestboards.com](http://biggestboards.com) website, and I came to it because of its size and the fact it was generally focused. There’s a lot of big forums dedicated to gaming, cars, guns, etc., but this one was focused on intellectual topics and debate. So that’s why I’ve chosen to focus on this forum, and with the powerful responses I’ve gotten, I know I made the right choice. I don’t know everything about this movement. There are doubtless more failures I haven’t accounted for, like there are more successes I haven’t accounted for, because I either don’t know about them, forgot about them over time, etc. That doesn’t change the fact of _trends_. The fact that individuals, doctors, dispensaries, corporations, and teams have all had success eliminating cancer in humans. The fact that there are hundreds of scientific studies showing cannabinoids are therapeutically effective against virtually any disease, and those are indeed peer-reviewed. When the vast experiential evidence is analyzed alongside the science, it’s clear what’s going on. As to why these aren’t random coincidences - if someone is dying, starts taking cannabis oil, and immediately starts to recover, it’s unlikely they started recovering for some other reason, especially if they were about to die. And if such remarkable experiences have been replicated continuously over years by many different people, it’s even less likely it’s coincidence. And if there are scientific studies indicating such things would _potentially_ be possible, even less likely of coincidence. It’s just so much. What has been going on is in no way up to the standards of modern science, but that doesn’t mean its worthless. For thousands of years, people used herbal medicines with effectiveness, despite never having run a single clinical trial. The scientific method has delivered so much and will continue to be extremely important for so many things, but it has also greatly reduced people’s faith in their own power, their own power to heal and their faith in other humans. It’s hard to identify when something is truly real and revolutionary because of all the bullshit that gets in the way, like actually fake cancer cures. There is more support for this than any other alternative medicine, and my report makes that clear. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/57 "2013-11-12T04:37:41Z")
> [@JKander](#): > > As to why these aren’t random coincidences - if someone is dying, starts taking cannabis oil, and immediately starts to recover, it’s unlikely they started recovering for some other reason, especially if they were about to die. You can’t just assert “it’s unlikely this is a coincidence.” You have to rule out confounding factors. That’s not of minor importance. > [@](#): > > For thousands of years, people used herbal medicines with effectiveness, despite never having run a single clinical trial. They also didn’t live as long as we did and struggled to cure diseases like cancer. I think you’ve drawn the wrong conclusion here. ---
**Author:** ![JKander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@JKander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKander)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/58 "2013-11-12T04:37:44Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And when consumed regularly in large doses along with unevaporated Everclear mixed with grape Kool-Aid (AKA: Purple Jesus) it might even cause you to forget you have terminal cancer. > > **JKander** , you and I are about the same age, so I’m going to go into full condescension mode and tell you some things. Dope is great fun and it has some medicinal qualities we know about, and it may have others we don’t yet know, but nothing is the magical cure-all you describe. And nothing can be, because cancer is not a monolithic disease with a single cause like, say, smallpox. Believing cannabis is like that is, frankly, childish, and 1970 was a long time ago. It’s time to put your Cheech and Chong thinking behind you and learn more about what it can and can NOT do before you put any more of your readers’ lives in danger by spewing dangerous bullshit. There’s not much I can address here, you didn’t say anything of substance. And for all the ways cancers are different - the different causes, different mechanisms of formation, everything - there are universal similarities. Abnormal cells, abnormal differentiation, abnormal spreading. It is because cannabis works at **fundamental** levels that it works against not only nearly any type of cancer, but nearly any kind of disease. Below is a list of studies with hundreds of entries, and I analyze the specifics of dozens of them in my report. [http://letfreedomgrow.com/cmu/grannyslist-jan2011.pdf](http://letfreedomgrow.com/cmu/grannyslist-jan2011.pdf) As for the herbal medicines thing, it’s true they were fighting far different diseases than us. But the fact is, they were still treating conditions with effectiveness with herbal medicines, and we don’t need to understand every scientific detail of a medicine for it to work. Regardless of our understanding, reality operates independently. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/59 "2013-11-12T04:38:54Z")
> [@JKander](#): > > It is because cannabis works at **fundamental** levels that it works against not only nearly any type of cancer, but nearly any kind of disease. This is gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![JKander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@JKander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKander)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684/60 "2013-11-12T04:48:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is gibberish. I should clarify what I mean by “fundamental levels”. So many pharmaceuticals just treat symptoms or aim to target specific pathways while ignoring the consequences to other pathways, which results in side effects. Cannabinoids work at a fundamental level - regulating communication between cells, interacting with DNA, etc. One study postulates there is an “ancient role for cannabinoid receptors as axonal regulators of neuronal signaling.” That’s pretty fundamental, as all nervous system messages originate with the action potential sent through the axon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannabis-extracts-for-the-primary-treatment-of-cancer-epilepsy-and-more/673684.md?page=4)