# Cannine Alpha Male **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998 "2011-08-17T05:25:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/1 "2011-08-17T05:25:05Z")
Hello Again Everyone, My wife and I were reading the recent doggie threads in GQ and came up with a question neither of us could reasonably answer. The term Alpha Male is always used to designate the leader of a particular dog pack or even to describe the pecking order of humans and dogs. Is there such a thing as the Alpha Female? Is it ever observed that a female is the leader of the pack? Of course in my house we are all aware who the Alpha Female is! I know who is boss and if I know what is good for me I won’t forget it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/2 "2011-08-17T05:35:49Z")
I realized I spelled canine wrong. Sorry bout that, a bit more tired than I realized. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/3 "2011-08-17T05:40:01Z")
It is common in wolves, which are the same species as dogs (plus breeding). The female is often the pack leader. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/4 "2011-08-17T06:11:15Z")
Amongst wolves there is \*always \*an alpha pair consisting of an alpha male and an alpha female. This is the breeding pair. Other wolves are discouraged from breeding through violence. The lower ranked wolves are almost always he alpha pair’s offspring from previous years. Packs adopting individuals that are not siblings/offspring is very uncommon. Neither male nor female is the pack leader in any meaningful sense. Wolves don’t really have a pack leader. Al members of the pack defend and try to expand a territory. All members decide when to hunt based upon consensus, with the young animals commonly cajoling and harassing the older into hunting, rather than the other way around. The older animals will discipline youngsters that misbehave on a hunt, for example by breaking cover too early, but that is the extant of pack leadership and it doesn’t fall to the males more often than the females. Note however that this is only the pack structure. It’s normal for lower ranked wolves to leave the pack, establish their own territories and breed after their fourth year. So the concept of an alpha wolf that is head of a heirarchical pecking order is a bit of a misconception. The reality is a case of parents dominating their children, and the children tolerating it for the security the parents bring. Once the offspring have the confidence to leave home and start their own packs, they almost always do so. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/5 "2011-08-17T07:20:31Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Note however that this is only the pack structure. It’s normal for lower ranked wolves to leave the pack, establish their own territories and breed after their fourth year. So the concept of an alpha wolf that is head of a heirarchical pecking order is a bit of a misconception. The reality is a case of parents dominating their children, and the children tolerating it for the security the parents bring. Once the offspring have the confidence to leave home and start their own packs, they almost always do so. decades ago, i read about a spot in america wherein you have only one identified pack (\> 20) if i remember. its population depends on the corresponding deer population in the area (so the article said, a hunting mag.) deer hunting there is regulated. so if you have just one pack that perpetuates continuosly, who heads it? the dominant family heads? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/6 "2011-08-17T10:30:29Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > decades ago, i read about a spot in america wherein you have only one identified pack (\> 20) if i remember. its population depends on the corresponding deer population in the area (so the article said, a hunting mag.) deer hunting there is regulated. so if you have just one pack that perpetuates continuosly, who heads it? the dominant family heads? Yes. Wolves breed once ayerage,with an average litter size of 6, so twenty members is most likely the same pair and 3 or 4 season’s pups. However if the area really contained only one pack of 20 members that perpetuated continuously they would become disastrously inbred in short order. Obviously the reality must be more complex. While a pack of 20 wolves may stake out a territory, it will also border other packs, and the border will be move depending on relative pack strengths. Over time the pack will break up into smaller packs, often with some of the older pups from adjacent packs staking out their own territory in on the margins. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/7 "2011-08-17T10:40:50Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > decades ago, i read about a spot in america wherein you have only one identified pack (\> 20) if i remember. its population depends on the corresponding deer population in the area (so the article said, a hunting mag.) deer hunting there is regulated. so if you have just one pack that perpetuates continuosly, who heads it? the dominant family heads? You’re thinking of [Isle Royale,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_and_moose_on_Isle_Royale) perhaps? > [@](#): > > The wolf population of Isle Royale is, with the exception of a few loners and separate pairs, formed into three packs; the east pack, the middle pack, and the Chippewa Harbor pack.[12] Wolves on the island have, historically, been separated into three or four packs, with each pack usually having between three and eight members, including two or three pups. The number of wolves in a pack depends mainly on the amount of snow that fell in the previous winter. In winters with light snow, pups tend to leave the pack to find mates, so packs run at four or five members; in heavily snowy winters, the pups stay with the pack, which can reach ten to twelve members. If many members of a pack die, the pack dissolves and a new one forms within a year. One pack will dissolve about once every three years.[11] ---
**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/8 "2011-08-18T09:15:12Z")
In my opinion, the term “Alpha Male” simply designates the sex of the alpha pack leader. The pack leader can be male or female and is usually determined by the leader’s dominance. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/9 "2011-08-18T14:34:32Z")
In some groups of primates there is an alpha female and alpha male as well. In the only group of nonhuman primates I followed long enough to establish a clear pecking order, I’d argue that the alpha female really ran the show even though, during the one fight I saw, the alpha male totally kicked her ass as he was twice as big! ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/10 "2011-08-18T16:57:00Z")
In recent years some have challenged the whole concept of alpha and dominance. My mind is still open on this question partly because it is so hard sorting out good and bad information. The net is likely the largest habitat for hidden agendas in the history of mankind. It is truely sad the way so many scientists are quite willing to distort data to fit their political ends. Or even to make money from a controversial book. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/11 "2011-08-18T17:11:09Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Neither male nor female is the pack leader in any meaningful sense. Wolves don’t really have a pack leader. Al members of the pack defend and try to expand a territory. All members decide when to hunt based upon consensus, with the young animals commonly cajoling and harassing the older into hunting, rather than the other way around. The older animals will discipline youngsters that misbehave on a hunt, for example by breaking cover too early, but that is the extant of pack leadership and it doesn’t fall to the males more often than the females. How right did Kipling get wolves (in _The Jungle Book_)? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cannine-alpha-male/592998/12 "2011-08-18T20:34:18Z")
In domestic horses, each pastured herd will have an ‘Alpha Mare’ in charge of the herd.