# Canon you disagree with **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420 "2009-01-01T00:14:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/81 "2009-01-02T10:08:19Z")
OMG, how did I forget this: Tara. Shot through the heart at such an unlikely angle as to defy the laws of ballistics. W. T. F. All to make Willow go Dark Phoenix, in the lamest season ender BtVS ever did. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/82 "2009-01-02T10:17:44Z")
Anything after Terminator and/or Alien 2 can’t possibly be canonical. ---
**Author:** ![ponsonby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@ponsonby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ponsonby)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/83 "2009-01-02T10:35:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Firefly gives dates? I never noticed any. > > As for the other two series - in both cases, humanity received a huge amount of technology from the alien civilizations that made first contact with them (the Vulcans in ST and the Minbari in B5). I can easily imagine that receiving interstellar travel technology would lead to an accellerated period of exploration and colonization, akin to Europe in the 16th-18th centuries, along with the political upheavals of the 19th and 20th. Isn’t Firefly supposed to be set 500 years from now? I remember that from watching the series on DVD, and from the movie too. Well I think so, I loaned my copy out and never got it back. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/84 "2009-01-02T15:12:20Z")
> [@ponsonby](#): > > Isn’t Firefly supposed to be set 500 years from now? I remember that from watching the series on DVD, and from the movie too. Well I think so, I loaned my copy out and never got it back. I found [this website](http://signal.serenityfirefly.com/timeline.html) that has a Firefly/Serenity timeline. Some canon dates:[ul][li]Serenity (the ship) was built in 2459[/li][li]The Battle of Serenity Valley ended in May 2511[/li][\*]The episode _Our Mrs Reynolds_ occured in October 2517[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/85 "2009-01-02T15:20:37Z")
The setup of **Shrek 2**. Fiona was an ogre who was too young to remember that the curse turned her into a human during the day, rather than a human who turned into an ogre at night, and I refuse to believe anything different. It would ruin the whole moral of the first movie. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/86 "2009-01-02T15:35:06Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Joss Whedon loves Kitty so much, he based Buffy on her. However, I’ve come to the realization that Joss Whedon is a character destroying bastard who deserves whatever sharp-toothed, testicle-chewing parasites he encounters. > > I started looking for Joss’s stuff after seeing BtVS in the theater. The man can create some poignant, adorable characters. But I’ve suffered through him killing off, maiming, and destroying those characters for no good reason other than to fuck with his fans. I read X-Men starting in sixth grade, and I have always identified with Kitty Pryde more than any other comic book character. My hope is, after his ass is finally gone from X-Men, a more sane writer will bring her back. I **like** it when main characters die off, _especially_ ones who are loved. “Oh know, the crazy killer guy has Mel & Wash in a torture chamber!” Actually has a level of suspense if you think there’s a chance, no matter how small, that they don’t make it out alive. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/87 "2009-01-02T21:47:25Z")
I understand that, and I’m usually right there with you, mouth agape and heart pounding. But there are times when it crosses the line between good drama and sadistic fan torture. If you’re going to kill off a character, there should be something in that death that pulls the balance out of nihilism and echoes the theme of the piece. I know it sounds silly, but considering the number of times the X-Men have saved the Earth, killing off Kitty to generate “oh noes” among the fans is a cheap ass trick. Worse is that he didn’t officially kill her off. She’s hurtling through space, alone and discorporated, forever. She deserves better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/88 "2009-01-02T23:10:15Z")
**Doctor Who** : Rose never returned from the alternate dimension Earth. The rift was permanently, irrevocably sealed up at the end of series 2, and never ‘unsealed.’ There was certainly never any contrived ‘almost’ regeneration that resulted in the instant cloning of a second, albiet human Doctor that would become Rose’s boyfriend and smooch her long & hard. No, that didn’t happen. The last time Rose ever communicated with the Doctor was when she saw his hologram on the beach, which vanished just before he could say he loved her. Yes, that’s sadder. But it’s a more poignant, profound parting moment. Rose’s ‘happy’ ending at the end of series 4 kind of ruined it. Donna never lost her memory either. But that’s a whole other story. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/89 "2009-01-02T23:31:48Z")
On a minor tangent, here’s a ST:TNG scene I’d love to see: ```auto BRIDGE OF THE ENTERPRISE Thumps are heard and the bridge shakes slightly. Flashes are visible on the main viewscreen. TROI (horrified, almost personally offended) Captain, I sense... (frowns, as if puzzled) ...*hostility*. PICARD No *shit*, Counselor! They're goddamn *firing at us!* Picard stalks over and slugs Troi upside the mouth. A couple of teeth go skittering off into the corner as Troi crumples. She twitches for a few moments then lies still. A pool of blood slowly appears. ``` ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/90 "2009-01-02T23:35:07Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > The whole Prequel trilogy was one big clusterfuck AFAIC. George Lucas made three star wars films. And they were great. (Although my copy of the remastered version has that strange screen glitch, that makes it look like Greedo fired his gun, but we know that didn’t happen) I’m not denying the prequels were pretty bad movies, just objecting to the nitpick about deflecting blaster fire. If you can deflect a laser shot, hey, why not in a specific direction? After all, the only guy we see do it in the first three movies was Luke Skywalker, who’s something of a sketchily trained dude. On another note, I’m surprised so many Dopers are on a first name basis with Joss Whedon. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/91 "2009-01-03T00:44:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m surprised so many Dopers are on a first name basis with Joss Whedon. That, Sir, is worthy of being a sig. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/92 "2009-01-03T00:58:58Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Kitty Pryde is still alive and well, either dating Spider-Man or hanging out with Wolverine. On Earth. > > Under no circumstances is she dead or somehow fused into a giant Earth-destroying bullet. > > Oh, and Joss Whedon is infested with toothy, blood-sucking, itchy, smelly, ball-chewing parasites resistant to every known treatment on Earth. _That_ should be canon. > > You just don’t fuck with Shadowcat. x2. I actually said such to Joss at Comic-Con…something about “letting him live because he didn’t actually kill her, but that I was not the least bit happy about what he did to her.” Maybe Dr. Strange got her back when Spidey finished bitch-slapping him. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/93 "2009-01-03T01:08:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > On another note, I’m surprised so many Dopers are on a first name basis with Joss Whedon. Missed edit window: Some of us _have_ met the man, you know. It’s still something I treasure a bit, even though he is rotten, lousy, heroine-killing bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/94 "2009-01-03T02:19:44Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I’ll second Whynot about the “Willow’s gay” plot. It would have made a heap more sense for her to be bi after her puppylust for Xander. To say nothing of Oz. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/95 "2009-01-03T02:40:16Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > On the \*Buffy \*storylines: > > Tara was actually Amy the Rat, made human again in response to Willow’s subconscious wish. Tara first appeared in the Dracula episode where everyone got their secret wish, and Tara is “A Rat” spelled backwards. Willow’s secret wish was to have someone who wouldn’t leave her for someone else. Tara first appeared in “Hush”, and was in a good dozen episodes before “Buffy v. Dracula”. (Or am I being whooshed here?) > [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t know why this is a problem. Yes, blaster fire travels at the speed of light, but I think the idea is that the Force allows a Jedi to anticipate ahead of time where the enemy’s shot will go. That’s no more a stretch than telekinesis or the Jedi Mind Trick or any of that stuff. Actually, blaster fire pretty clearly _doesn’t_ travel at the speed of light, seeing as how you can watch it go “whee” across the screen. (Try that with a flashlight or a laster pointer sometime.) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/96 "2009-01-03T04:07:53Z")
Spider-Man’s _One More D_—actually, y’know what, most of Marvel’s mainstream continuity over the last year and a half or so. That should cover it nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/97 "2009-01-03T04:36:26Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I understand that, and I’m usually right there with you, mouth agape and heart pounding. > > But there are times when it crosses the line between good drama and sadistic fan torture. > > If you’re going to kill off a character, there should be something in that death that pulls the balance out of nihilism and echoes the theme of the piece. I know it sounds silly, but considering the number of times the X-Men have saved the Earth, killing off Kitty to generate “oh noes” among the fans is a cheap ass trick. Worse is that he didn’t officially kill her off. She’s hurtling through space, alone and discorporated, forever. She deserves better than that. Personally, I think TV and Movies should have a bit more Nihilism in them. Good stuff doesn’t always get balanced with bad stuff. And if it makes you feel any better, Kitty isn’t hurtling through space forever, only until she dies of 1) hypothermia 2) hypoxia 3) starvation 4) dehydration. Did I miss any? ---
**Author:** ![asrivkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9d8465/32.png) [@asrivkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asrivkin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/98 "2009-01-03T11:35:40Z")
In addition to what was mentioned earlier: 1. That wasn’t _the_ Chewbacca in the so-called “Episode III”. 2. The Imperial Stormtroopers aren’t really clones of Jango Fett, as suggested in the so-called “Episode II”. 3. Qui-Gon freaking Jinn certainly did _not_ discover anything about maintaining individual consciousness as _he was the most incompetent Jedi in history_ (it’s the only thing that makes so-called “Episode I” make sense). 4. The Beatles would never have kicked any monster, no matter how ugly, out of the Yellow Submarine. 5. Finally, Hulk Hogan was never a villain. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/99 "2009-01-03T12:10:46Z")
> [@asrivkin](#): > > 1. The Imperial Stormtroopers aren’t really clones of Jango Fett, as suggested in the so-called “Episode II”. This is addressed in the novels, that _clone troopers_ are different than _storm troopers_. Imperial Storm Troopers are recruited from shmoes like you and I, and the Clone Troopers were phased out as they aged (which was pretty quickly, since… you know, double speed and whatnot). ---
**Author:** ![asrivkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9d8465/32.png) [@asrivkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asrivkin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420/100 "2009-01-03T12:23:21Z")
> [@Trocisp](#): > > This is addressed in the novels, that _clone troopers_ are different than _storm troopers_. > > Imperial Storm Troopers are recruited from shmoes like you and I, and the Clone Troopers were phased out as they aged (which was pretty quickly, since… you know, double speed and whatnot). I hate to ask, but given the thread topic… Are the novels considered canon? I bet that could open up an entire new message board’s worth of additional complaints. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canon-you-disagree-with/479420.md?page=6)