# Can't cable companies tell what I'm watching? How is Nielsen still relevant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409 "2014-03-24T02:07:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/21 "2014-03-24T14:00:47Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Are you sure the entire digital spectrum isn’t being sent, but only the current channel is being tuned/decoded locally in the home?. The critical phrase is “on demand”. That constrains the service to be one to one. So long as there is enough bandwidth upstream this is not much of an issue nowadays. Flash memory is about 1$ a gigabyte. So it takes a few dollars to store a movie in a central file store in a form that can be read randomly by as many people as you please at the same time. The idea of “channels” and specific times for programmes is fast dying. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/22 "2014-03-24T14:19:41Z")
I’ve been as Neilsen family for years, regularly filling out the forms. I consider it my duty to lie on the forms, and choose random programs. The entire purpose for the existence of TV is to propagate lies and deceptions to exploit the viewers for corporate profit, and I lie right back to them, to interfere with the efficiency of their heinous enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/23 "2014-03-24T14:39:38Z")
If your cable box is connected to your TV via HDMI, then the cable box knows if the TV is on or not. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/24 "2014-03-24T16:32:21Z")
I was a rating household for radio once. As others did for tv, I got cash in the mailers. I seem to recall getting $2 bills. I told them I did not own a AM/FM radio, commuted by bicycle and thus did not listen in a car, and the only radio I listened to was VHF marine radio as a part of my job. They didn’t care. Perhaps for those few weeks the VHF band got a big boost in popularity because that is all I noted in the log. Hours and hours of it. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/25 "2014-03-24T16:52:53Z")
Some misinformation here. There ABSOLUTELY is not a camera on a Nielsen set-top box (they’re now called People Meters in most markets.) Each member in the household is assigned a letter on a special remote. When they start watching tv they’re expected to press their assigned button so the meters know who’s watching at any given moment. As you would assume, Nielsen knows all the pertinent demographic info for each person in the household (age, gender, race primarily.) There are no more paper diaries, at least not in any major or medium-size markets. As far as Nielsen is concerned, there aren’t really any sweeps, either. They record all viewing and demo information in People Meter markets 365 days a year. Before People Meters, major and midsize markets received daily Overnights beginning in the '90s. These measured what households were watching, but they didn’t record what each individual viewer in each household was watching. This is what the sweeps periods were for (Feb, May, and November being the most important sweeps.) During sweeps, those in homes with set-top boxes did indeed fill out diaries for each member of the household. This was important because advertisers don’t buy household ratings because households don’t buy products. People do, and different advertisers need to reach different audiences. Advertising rates are now regularly adjusted, and not just in the months following sweeps, because measuring audiences is now fluid. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/26 "2014-03-24T17:00:25Z")
As for cable boxes tracking your viewing patterns… I don’t know what each box or cable system is capable of, but it would be business suicide for cable subscribers to find out their provider is not only recording their viewing but selling it to a ratings service. We may overshare on social media and other areas of our lives, but I don’t think there are many who would want anyone to know about EVERYTHING we watch, at least not without our permssion. Plus, the data would be useless to Nielsen anyway because your cable box doesn’t know who in your household is watching what and, thus, can’t provide the necessary demographic data. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/27 "2014-03-24T17:19:52Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > On the contrary, I would imagine for accurate results they would need to know about people like you also. > > If somebody who rarely watches TV then does watch a particular programme, well, thats the type of information advertisers really want to know about. Absolutely. The idea is to create a mini “tv universe” in their sample, so it should reflect every viewer out there. Advertisers want as close to reality represented as possible - it wouldn’t do much good to fill the sample with only folks who are heavy viewers/just families and no singles/just people between the ages of 25-54/etc. if that’s not the reality of the situation. That’s also why people seem chosen at random - when a person leaves the sample (either due to asking to leave, being removed for non participation or because you can only be in for 3 years) they try to replace that person with someone similar. So if a single male 30-34 years old who makes $40K a year and only has over the air TV access leaves the sample, they try and find another single male just like that to represent that slice of the market. ---
**Author:** ![StayseaDee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@StayseaDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StayseaDee)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/28 "2014-03-24T17:29:41Z")
If the cable company has no idea if a television is on or what channel they are watching, how do network’s know their shows are popular? I just read that one of my favorite shows had been canceled due to only 600,000 viewers tuning in on its season premiere. How do they get this number? ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/29 "2014-03-24T17:32:05Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Can we get a cite for this? Sounds awfully urban-legendary. I had read that such a box was being developed to improve the accuracy of viewership numbers, and that Nielsen was interested. I was assuming that this was the only way they could claim to get accurate numbers, including who’s going to the loo at what moment. I admit I haven’t heard about this for a while, and [according to this article](http://www.techspot.com/news/53419-intel-drops-facial-recognition-capability-from-upcoming-set-top-box.html) it seems to have been dropped entirely last year. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/30 "2014-03-24T17:39:30Z")
> [@StayseaDee](#): > > If the cable company has no idea if a television is on or what channel they are watching, how do network’s know their shows are popular? I just read that one of my favorite shows had been canceled due to only 600,000 viewers tuning in on its season premiere. How do they get this number? Presumably they extrapolate from the Nielsen data. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/31 "2014-03-24T18:52:21Z")
> [@Victor\_Charlie](#): > > …it would be business suicide for cable subscribers to find out their provider is not only recording their viewing but selling it to a ratings service. Check those terms and conditions that no one reads. From [AT&T’s privacy policy:](http://www.att.com/gen/privacy-policy?pid=2506) > [@](#): > > Here’s some of the information we collect: > … > Web Browsing & Wireless Application Information tells us about the websites you visit and the mobile applications you use on our network > … > U-verse Information tells us about which programs you watch and record, the games you play, the applications you use and similar information about how you use our U-verse services and applications. > [@](#): > > Here are just some of the ways we use it. To: > … > Deliver Relevant Advertising; > Create External Marketing & Analytics Reports; However, AT&T says, “We don’t sell your Personal Information to anyone for any purpose. Period.” Your data **CAN** be aggregated (just like the NSA :eek:) and provided/sold to outside entities unless you “Opt Out” under Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI) rights. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/32 "2014-03-24T19:38:55Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > Check those terms and conditions that no one reads. From [AT&T’s privacy policy:](http://www.att.com/gen/privacy-policy?pid=2506) > > However, AT&T says, “We don’t sell your Personal Information to anyone for any purpose. Period.” > > Your data **CAN** be aggregated (just like the NSA :eek:) and provided/sold to outside entities unless you “Opt Out” under Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI) rights. I don’t doubt they’re any different than other companies that collect as much data as the law will allow. I also don’t doubt that very few subscribers realize it’s happening (that’s what AT&T is counting on.) But, the terms you list also make it clear they don’t sell it to others. For many who are aware but are willing to make the trade off to get such services, that’s where the line is drawn. At least it is for me. Although, I DO opt out of any data collection I can. But maybe I’m giving average viewers too much credit. Either way, the data they collect may be helpful to some companies but isn’t very relevant to Nielsen. Not yet, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/33 "2014-03-24T19:41:33Z")
> [@Victor\_Charlie](#): > > As for cable boxes tracking your viewing patterns… I don’t know what each box or cable system is capable of, but it would be business suicide for cable subscribers to find out their provider is not only recording their viewing but selling it to a ratings service. We may overshare on social media and other areas of our lives, but I don’t think there are many who would want anyone to know about EVERYTHING we watch, at least not without our permssion. Of _course_ many cable companies are doing this. They are monitoring your TV viewing habits down to the minutest detail, including individual button clicks on your remote control. Technically they have your permission—you probably just didn’t notice it buried in the fine print. For example, here’s what you agree to when you sign up for cable TV via [Virgin Media](http://store.virginmedia.com/the-legal-stuff/terms-and-conditions-for-fibre-optic-services.html): > [@Virgin Media](#): > > By having the services provided by us installed in your home and/or by using them you are providing your consent to use your personal information together with other information for… profiling your usage and viewing (for example, the types of programmes you watch), how you use the television services (e.g. pausing, fast-forwarding or rewinding programmes, whether you save programmes to watch later, if you tend to skip the adverts, watch programmes on demand) and your purchasing preferences (for example, responding to advertisements or promotions) They also sell this data to third parties. Again, all in the fine print. Perhaps you overlooked my post above, but it’s not just cable companies which are doing this. If your TV is a so-called “smart TV” with an Internet connection, then you can bet everything you watch is sent to the television manufacturer too. (It was even worse in the case of LG, as customers’ data was being sent even after they opted out. Of course, the same could be true of your cable companies, but unlike with the TV it would be almost impossible for the user to detect this.) ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/34 "2014-03-24T20:12:26Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I’ve been as Neilsen family for years, regularly filling out the forms. I consider it my duty to lie on the forms, and choose random programs. The entire purpose for the existence of TV is to propagate lies and deceptions to exploit the viewers for corporate profit, and I lie right back to them, to interfere with the efficiency of their heinous enterprise. You truly are a [first world anarchist](http://www.reddit.com/r/firstworldanarchists)! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/35 "2014-03-24T20:14:01Z")
TiVo also collects “non-identifying” information on what you watch and sells it. Any company that can collect data on you will and they will sell it. No one cares if a few privacy folks get upset anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/36 "2014-03-24T20:24:07Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Of _course_ many cable companies are doing this. They are monitoring your TV viewing habits down to the minutest detail, including individual button clicks on your remote control. Technically they have your permission—you probably just didn’t notice it buried in the fine print. For example, here’s what you agree to when you sign up for cable TV via [Virgin Media](http://store.virginmedia.com/the-legal-stuff/terms-and-conditions-for-fibre-optic-services.html):They also sell this data to third parties. Again, all in the fine print. > > Perhaps you overlooked my post above, but it’s not just cable companies which are doing this. If your TV is a so-called “smart TV” with an Internet connection, then you can bet everything you watch is sent to the television manufacturer too. (It was even worse in the case of LG, as customers’ data was being sent even after they opted out. Of course, the same could be true of your cable companies, but unlike with the TV it would be almost impossible for the user to detect this.) Fair enough. My main point, though, is that the data they collect is not of much use to Nielsen, which is why Nielsen installs it’s own equipment. They still rely on the viewers to reveal which members of the household are tuned-in. Smart TVs may be smart, but they don’t know if the person watching Duck Dynasty is an 8-year-old white boy or a 75 year-old Hispanic woman. That’s the information Nielsen subscribers need to know. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/37 "2014-03-24T23:12:22Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > The critical phrase is “on demand”. That constrains the service to be one to one. So long as there is enough bandwidth upstream this is not much of an issue nowadays. Flash memory is about 1$ a gigabyte. So it takes a few dollars to store a movie in a central file store in a form that can be read randomly by as many people as you please at the same time. The idea of “channels” and specific times for programmes is fast dying. Not quite there yet but the answer is still no, all the channels are not sent all the time. There is not enough bandwidth and most cable companies use [switched digital video](http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/how-switched-digital-video-works.htm). The gist is that the 80 percent of people will watch the top 20 or so most popular channels at any one time, so they don’t send all the channels all the time and instead use bandwidth to sell you other things, like phone service or home monitoring. And absolutely cable companies know exactly what you are watching and on how many devices. My Comcast agreement limits how many devices I can extend my service to. ---
**Author:** ![JoelCT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@JoelCT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelCT)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/38 "2015-07-06T02:09:17Z")
I found this on the Time-Warner Cable Terms and Conditions page: Another example of information that we collect while delivering digital video services is data necessary to provide switched digital services. Many of our systems use switched digital technology so we can deliver additional channels and services. **To do so, we need to collect your tuning choices** along with information about your equipment to ensure that desired channels are delivered to you when you request them. While this information is temporarily associated with your equipment in order to provide these services, it will not be once the equipment identification is no longer needed for operations, troubleshooting and billing purposes. This anonymous information may be preserved and used as described in the next paragraph. We do not disclose to others for their marketing or advertising purposes any personally identifiable information that may be derived from this collection. Finally, in delivering a video service, \*\*we also track information about your use of TWC Equipment in a non-personally identifiable manner \*\*and we may combine this information with other non-personally identifiable information. **This aggregate or anonymous information may be used for research and to determine which programming and commercials are being watched** , which may assist us in determining the networks that should be delivered via switched digital, in paying our providers for video on demand programming, \*\*in informing us, advertisers and programmers how many impressions were received \*\*and generally making programming and advertising more relevant to our customers. None of this data will be used to personally identify you. [http://help.twcable.com/twc\_privacy\_notice.html](http://help.twcable.com/twc_privacy_notice.html) ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/39 "2015-07-06T02:57:40Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Everything I have read about Nielsen suggests that they can get much more accurate data through a combination of equipment and user reports than you can through automated monitoring. I don’t know if that is true these days but it once was so they may just keep influence through legacy inertia. Isn’t something like Netflix on demand an even better way to manage it? Then, it doesn’t matter when something aired or whether it even still exists - it just matters if it’s good enough to watch compared to the alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409/40 "2015-07-06T03:07:29Z")
> [@randomplanck](#): > > I’ve never met a Nielsen family in my life. A… You have now. Back when I was about 19, my family did it for a while. We had to log who watched what, how many watched, and what their ages were. I think it was for 2 weeks IIRC. No money involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-cable-companies-tell-what-im-watching-how-is-nielsen-still-relevant/684409.md?page=3)