# Can't place an order on a website because of...a Jewish holiday? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 18, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395 "2021-05-18T20:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/1 "2021-05-18T20:59:20Z")
I was trying to order a particular and often hard-to-find vacuum press release paper from a company I believe I have ordered from in the past with no problems, but today, after adding what I needed to the shopping cart, I got a notification box that said the website would not accept any orders until 9pm tonight after Shavuot ends. At first this made no sense to me. Just because your website takes an order, the observant business person or employee doesn’t need to process it until it is personally (or religiously) convenient. I guess there must be a prohibition on doing commerce or accepting money, as well as working, for them to go to the trouble of coding their site so it won’t accept orders at certain times. Has anybody else encountered this? Also, what happens if their bank or stock broker applies interest or a dividend to their account during such a proscribed time? Do they have mechanisms to prevent that, as well? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/2 "2021-05-18T21:03:38Z")
I know I have not been able to order from B&H Photo/Video on Saturdays. I believe I asked about this before, several years go, so there may be a thread on it. IIRC (which I may not), even though the order is taken by a computer, it’s still ‘work’. I don’t recall how having a machine take orders is wrong, but having someone start your stove so you can eat a hot meal on Saturdays is OK. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/3 "2021-05-18T21:03:47Z")
For the life of me, I can’t remember what site it is, but there’s a popular one out there (probably lots, but only one I know of) that won’t let you order on Sundays. ETA: Now that Johnny\_L\_A posted B&H photo that’s the one I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/4 "2021-05-18T21:04:23Z")
Were you trying to order from B&H? That’s the only company I am familiar with that shuts down their website on Jewish holidays, but I’d assume if they do, others might as well. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/5 "2021-05-18T21:05:08Z")
Yup, that was it. I haven’t ordered from them in probably a decade, but it’s who I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/6 "2021-05-18T21:30:11Z")
I think the logic is, accepting a transaction is a prohibited activity on the Sabbath. And by having an automated system active on the Sabbath, it is you accepting the transaction. On the other hand, when someone else turns on your stove, it is not you turning on the stove. You’re still using the fire they made, but using a fire is not a prohibited activity, only starting one. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/7 "2021-05-18T21:30:14Z")
Ha! Yes! B&H was the website in my OP. I wonder if they’re the only site that does that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/8 "2021-05-18T21:44:36Z")
As a WAG, I could see it as an interpretation of the Fourth Commandment: > Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. > > — [Exodus 20:8-11](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20%3A8-11&version=ESV) It is not too much of a stretch to say that as livestock are not humans, I cannot allow my other possessions, such as a web page to do work on the Sabbath either. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21825_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/9 "2021-05-18T22:41:35Z")
Semi-related - my husband recently had surgery at a Jewish hospital, and apparently there was only one door that one could enter on the Sabbath. I was too busy worrying about the surgery to ask anyone what the deal was - does anyone here know? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/10 "2021-05-18T23:22:02Z")
Adorama is another one. B&H & Adorama are two of the biggest suppliers of photographic equipment, both based in New York, both run by Orthodox Jews. I vaguely remember discovering that they have slightly different interpretations of what’s ok - I think one will accept an online order into the system, one won’t; but neither will process the order or ship it out on the Sabbath. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/11 "2021-05-19T00:00:53Z")
There used to be a bunch of brick-and-mortar Manhattan photo shops that closed on the Sabbath, including Willoughby’s and 47th Street Photo. They seemed to aim at tourists. Some of the merchandise was “[grey market](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market)” and I think they sold unbundled goods. (So if the manufacturer expected the camera to be sold with a particular lens, case and other accessories, they’d sell the camera separately and then try to sell aftermarket accessories.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/12 "2021-05-19T00:18:05Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Semi-related - my husband recently had surgery at a Jewish hospital, and apparently there was only one door that one could enter on the Sabbath. I was too busy worrying about the surgery to ask anyone what the deal was - does anyone here know? I don’t know about that, but the UCLA Medical Center has a Sabbath elevator, which runs all the time on Sabbath, stopping at each floor, so you can use it without pushing buttons and doing any work. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/13 "2021-05-19T00:26:30Z")
Here’s one interpretation I’ve heard. While there’s nothing prohibiting Gentiles from conducting business on the Sabbath, Jews aren’t permitted to do so. Since an automated website can’t distinguish between Jews and Gentiles, it would allow inattentive or non-observant Jews to break the Sabbath. The folks running B&H don’t want to be involved or contribute to Jews breaking the Sabbath, even if the Jews in question want to do so. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/14 "2021-05-19T11:56:03Z")
That’s my understanding , too - that’s it not about “work” but rather an issue of earning money or engaging in a business transaction ( not sure which) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/15 "2021-05-19T15:02:06Z")
Creative work is forbidden, and that means a lot of things that most folks wouldn’t consider “work” in a modern society. Commercial activity is forbidden because of the prohibition against writing, which is often involved in commercial activity. There are [39 Melachot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39_Melachot) (or categories of creative work) that are listed, and the rabbis have made extensive commentaries on how to interpret these restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/16 "2021-05-19T15:11:17Z")
I’d sure hope that any e-tailing business that refuses to accept orders on some certain holiday also simply shuts down their website during that time. Going through the rigamarole of searching, comparing, selecting, entering personal & shipping details, etc., only to find at the end that I can’t click [Buy] would instantly put them on my permanent [do not buy from] list. OTOH, if their whole website returned a page saying > We’re now closed for [reason] and will reopen on [date] at [time]. I would have no objection. Their store, their rules. I was in a hurry I for the product might still end up buying from a competitor. But with no hard feelings towards the closed folks. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/17 "2021-05-19T15:33:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Adorama is another one. B&H & Adorama are two of the biggest suppliers of photographic equipment, both based in New York, both run by Orthodox Jews. I vaguely remember discovering that they have slightly different interpretations of what’s ok - I think one will accept an online order into the system, one won’t; but neither will process the order or ship it out on the Sabbath. My father knows (somewhat) the guy who owns B&H, and he once asked him about it. He (the B&H guy) said he didn’t know that it was technically forbidden for him to keep his website accepting orders on the Sabbath, but he didn’t personally feel comfortable with it from a religious standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/18 "2021-05-19T15:49:01Z")
I know that this sort of hair-splitting has a long tradition in Judaism, but that seems almost absurd. Why not just have a sort of delayed transaction? Like people can place their orders on Saturday, but the inventory isn’t allocated, the credit card isn’t charged, and no confirmations are sent. Orders would essentially sit in a “mailbox” of sorts until the end of the Sabbath, at which point they’d be processed and confirmed. It’s no different that someone mailing an order, and it sitting in the mailbox until someone opens it and processes that order after the Sabbath. I doubt there’s a prohibition on the delivery of business-related mail on the Sabbath, just the processing of the orders themselves. This would be no different. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/19 "2021-05-19T16:22:05Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Here’s one interpretation I’ve heard. While there’s nothing prohibiting Gentiles from conducting business on the Sabbath, Jews aren’t permitted to do so. Since an automated website can’t distinguish between Jews and Gentiles, it would allow inattentive or non-observant Jews to break the Sabbath. The folks running B&H don’t want to be involved or contribute to Jews breaking the Sabbath, even if the Jews in question want to do so. This is correct and may be the explanation. An orthodox Jew I know in Brooklyn would occasionally invite non-Jews for Friday evening dinner. But he refused to invite his Jewish PhD thesis advisor for that very reason; the man would have to take the subway home to Manhattan. The thesis advisor was utterly non-observant, but that was the reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395/20 "2021-05-19T17:01:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’d sure hope that any e-tailing business that refuses to accept orders on some certain holiday also simply shuts down their website during that time. IIRC from the times I’ve looked at B&H’s website during those times, the website is still up and available for you to view but they add a huge message on the top and main page that online orders will be suspended until a certain date. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cant-place-an-order-on-a-website-because-of-a-jewish-holiday/942395.md?page=2)