Can't wear uniform at political events - so what about soldiers standing behind Bush?

Great Debates
61

Do you feel that the duties of the President include “morale building” speeches, made to the military members, thanking them for their service, and ensuring them that what they are doing is the “right thing”, and that “it matters”?

I do. I classify his carrier “mission accomplished” speech as such.

Did the Prez use the same speech as a chance to reassure the US public at large (since it was televised), basically, the same thing?

Yes he did.

So, I dont think that indictments should be handed out to the crew of the USS Abe Lincoln.

Now, in the White House Press Room, where the President is expressing his opinion about the War Funding Bill, and has a uniformed military member (Probably someone from the JCS) standing behind him… Is the Prez “out of line” for having the window dressing there?

Maybe. Not to me, but I could see were you might think he is.

Should that military member be charged for being ordered to attend that function? I do not think so.

If the topic was some abortion legislation, for example, I would hope that the military member would excuse and remove himself from the area. (Of course, what happens if, in a press conference that was supposed to be about military concerns, the topic gets derailed, and wanders into nonmilitary terrain? Hmm. )

But all that is completely different to a situation where the military member chooses to attend a political rally (or protest march, labor strike, etc) in uniform, which is expressly prohibited.

62

I read it, and I disagree that it’s obviously political. Can you provide an example of someone being prosecuted by the military for doing something like that? If you can’t, then I think you should consider the possibility that you misunderstand the plan text of the regulation. Almost anything Bush does could be considered “political” in some way or another. If you were correct, then no military person could ever be seen with him.

Presidents always have military guys at the State of the Union speeches, when they’re pushing policy. I don’t see anything wrong with that, and I don’t see how it violates this regulation.

He can exercise his free speech all he wants, he just can’t do that while wearing the uniform.

If you read the regulation, I think they’re talking about marching in a Memorial Day parade or something like that.

63

Oh, come off it. The uniformed members of the military standing with/beside/around the President are not “endorsing political speech.” They are attending an event–isn’t the event on a military installation, anyway?–in which the head big wig is their Commander-in-Chief. Some of them are detailed to escort the man.

64

The Diplomatic Reception Room of the white house is not a military installation.

65

Okay. Yet, there are still members of the military who are assigned to details requiring they be in uniform and in the company of the President. There are also members of the military, uniformed members, assigned to the White House.

66

According to his speech, he was on a train at the San Diego Naval Base. It’s hard to see military trappings on the radio. As for that “blistering attack,” these paragraphs are the most critical I could find in his speech:

(Any bold type has been added for emphasis.)

That’s it! That’s the blistering attack about which you are sure there were many grumblings!

Meanwhile, he also had these “partisan” comments to make:

<snip>

<snip>

<snip>

The focus of most of his speech was, of course, the war with Germany and Japan – not the Republican Party.

67

So by that token, it would be kosher to you if President Bush were to have accepted renomination for the presidency from the deck of an aircraft carrier?

Somehow, I think you would have had something to say about it.

68

Since I can’t recall it happening in my lifetime, I would indeed think it odd.

69

I think FDR deserves a little slack. By 1944, his physical condition was starting to deteriorate. Appearing in person in a packed convention hall might not have been the wisest option at the time. And since his talk was on radio , who knew or cared where he actually spoke?

I don’t approve of any president using the military as props. Bush’s carrier landing was the worst offense in my memory, keeping the poor guys away from their families for another day just so he could have a photo op just off the San Diego shore (but making sure the camera angles faced out to the open sea). Speaking at a service academy function, fine. Dedicating a new ship, fine. Otherwise, the military doesn’t exist to advance any president’s political purposes.

70

Nobody’s faulting him for addressing the convention remotely. But he made great pains to tell people where he was and what he was doing.

Again, not a big deal to me. But it illustrates that this sort of thing has a pretty long pedigree.

I don’t want soldiers to be punished unless they engage in violent, racist, or extremely radical protests. The military has every right to crack down on that kind of thing, especially if uniforms are involved.

71

What is “extremely radical”? I’d prefer that the military uniform be treated like a judge’s robe. While you wear it, stay out of politics. Want to see a presidential political speech? Fine, get your leave approved and go in civvies.

72

This man didn’t do as you recommended.

What do you think ought to have been done in his case?

73

Given the Medal of Freedom? Was Mr. Kerry in the military at the time? If not, then he shouldn’t have worn the uniform. If he was, then I would say he shouldn’t have worn it, no more than Ollie North should have worn his for his testimony.

74

I always like to share this little article: Crossed Fingers | Snopes.com

75

John Kerry was a Naval reservist until 1978. I hope that clarifies your thinking on that particular subject.

As for Oliver North, he was active duty military at the time he served on the National Security Council staff, when he appeared before Congress, and also when he was later tried. Military regulations pretty clearly state that these last two occasions at a minimum require a military officer to appear in uniform.

76

Bush use the military as a prop? What, me worry?

Here’s a story about the RNC using military servicemen in doctored ads that I found when I was searching for that Bush ad that cut and pasted military service personel in a doctored ad.

Bush will use anyone and anything as a prop. Remember the post-Katrina instance of using emergency service personnel as a prop as he walked around surveying damage?

I don’t think the service personnel should be held to account for these abuses, and certainly Presidents ought to be able to deliver speeches to military groups, but there should be prohibitions against using images of the military at such events in political ads.

77

So if Kerry was in the reserves he should have worn it? As for Ollie, I guess it’s hard for me to get excited about felons in uniform vs felons out of uniform.

78

He shouldn’t have. The testimony was part of a series of protests he was engaged in at the time, and he wore his uniform to much of that.

You expressed your opinion that this was inappropriate. I agree

Oliver North was active duty, and thus was obligated to wear the uniform in most circumstances where you or I would wear a business suit. While there are exceptions to this rule (like the above noted ones about rallies and protests), a circumstance like testimony before Congress or a court would have required a uniform in most cases.

79

Discharge suggested for anti-war Marine

80

That particular Marine doesn’t strike me as being the sharpest. He wasn’t discharged, but rather “Released From Active Duty and Transferred to the Ready Reserve.” That’s because once he enlisted, he incurred an eight year Military Service Obligation. Although he wasn’t on Active Duty, he was still subject to the regulations regarding wear of the uniform.

Hmm…maybe he is pretty sharp after all. He doesn’t lose any of his benefits and he will sooner than expected have an actual discharge in hand so he’s no longer subject to recall. I wonder how many people are going to decide that’s a good idea!