# Canuckistani Dopers: Bush's visit tomorrow **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180 "2004-11-29T18:07:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/21 "2004-11-30T04:21:15Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > I’ll be among the protesters in Toronto–I wouldn’t miss this opportunity for the world! Out of curiosity, what do you plan to accomplish? If you are concerned with making the world a world a better place (in your eyes), wouldn’t actually doing something (volunteering at a soup kitchen or cleaning a river or whatnot) be better than just gathering around with your fellow bongo-smashers and accomplishing nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/22 "2004-11-30T04:36:00Z")
Half my school is going. Most of them don’t even know what they’re protesting. They just want to get a day off school and yell slogans and maybe smash things. They want to be a part of something, and be _against_ something. I really hope that the protest stays civilized. I think it sort of takes away from the message you’re trying to send when all you see about it on the late news is some ratty teen being dragged away from a burning car by riot cops. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_C.Mulligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@Chad\_C.Mulligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_C.Mulligan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/23 "2004-11-30T04:46:49Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > (Thanks, **Cajun Man**.) > > Alberta? You mean The Kingdom of His Royal Highness Ralph Klein, right? I kid, I kid, I\* love \* Alberta! Yes, loyal home of his royal Ralphness (peace and blessings be upon his name) and the Crown Prince Jim Dinning (my his budgets be forever in surplus). What, you mean we’re allowed to have more than one political party? Dadgummit, next e-lection I’m casting me a vote for them Social Credit fellows! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/24 "2004-11-30T04:50:30Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Out of curiosity, what do you plan to accomplish? If you are concerned with making the world a world a better place (in your eyes), wouldn’t actually doing something (volunteering at a soup kitchen or cleaning a river or whatnot) be better than just gathering around with your fellow bongo-smashers and accomplishing nothing? Any reason they can’t do both? ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/25 "2004-11-30T04:50:48Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Out of curiosity, what do you plan to accomplish? If you are concerned with making the world a world a better place (in your eyes), wouldn’t actually doing something (volunteering at a soup kitchen or cleaning a river or whatnot) be better than just gathering around with your fellow bongo-smashers and accomplishing nothing? I _do_ want to make the world a better place. That doesn’t necessarily mean I can’t volunteer at soup kitchens and clean rivers _and_ protest against Bush. They’re not exclusive. **Antigen** , so do I. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/26 "2004-11-30T04:56:11Z")
Me too. It strikes me as kind of pointless to wreck our _own_ capital to protest a _foreign_ asshole. Peaceful protest, on the other hand, has a long and honourable history as an essential part of democratic society, and it is something in which I regard it as my duty as a citizen to participate, as much as to go to the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/27 "2004-11-30T04:56:52Z")
I oppose almost everything Bush stands for; he’s a social conservative and a fiscal liberal - actually, he’s even MORe spend-happy than a “liberal” - and I’m a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. But I admit that I don’t quite get this. (I also don’t understand where these people find time to do this stuff during the workday, but oh well.) Bush is visiting Ottawa and Halifax. Why would you protest against his policies in Toronto? He’s not coming to Toronto. Toronto isn’t in the United States. The point to a protest is to present a grievance to the powers that be, isn’t it? What powers that be associated with George Bush are going to be in Toronto? He’s not going to see you. He’s not going to care even if he did. If you’re going to protest U.S. policy don’t you need to either go to Ottawa when Bush is in town, or go to Washington? In any event, nothing of consequence will happen this week. Everything they say they’ve decided has already been decided. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/28 "2004-11-30T05:05:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Bush is visiting Ottawa and Halifax. Why would you protest against his policies in Toronto? He’s not coming to Toronto. Toronto isn’t in the United States. The point to a protest is to present a grievance to the powers that be, isn’t it? What powers that be associated with George Bush are going to be in Toronto? I’m privileged in that I live two hours from Ottawa. Not everyone has the means to get to Ottawa. If you don’t, I suppose the idea is that history not record that they were silent. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/29 "2004-11-30T05:13:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Bush is visiting Ottawa and Halifax. Why would you protest against his policies in Toronto? He’s not coming to Toronto. Toronto isn’t in the United States. The point to a protest is to present a grievance to the powers that be, isn’t it? What powers that be associated with George Bush are going to be in Toronto? > > He’s not going to see you. He’s not going to care even if he did. If you’re going to protest U.S. policy don’t you need to either go to Ottawa when Bush is in town, or go to Washington? > > In any event, nothing of consequence will happen this week. Everything they say they’ve decided has already been decided. I can’t voice my protest against Bush’s policies because I happen to live in Toronto, and can’t hitch the next train to Ottawa for the big day? Well, cheese my cracker. Even if everything’s decided, as a citizen of a democratic country I can still get out there and tell them I don’t like what they’ve decided. That’s my right, innit? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/30 "2004-11-30T05:44:12Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Any reason they can’t do both? Not in the same period of time, obviously. Unless Canadians have some sort of odd temporal powers they haven’t revealed to the rest of us, of course. They are choosing to ‘prostest’ Bush at the expense of doing something useful. (If you go for that sort of stuff, that is.) Still, my question stands: What is to be accomplished by ‘protesting’ Bush? Even in a absolute best-case, what do goal do you think you will achieve? Obviously, nothing will be achieved (other than snarled traffic and perhaps some vandalism), but I am wondering what the realistic ‘best-case’ is for the protesters. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/31 "2004-11-30T05:57:06Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Not in the same period of time, obviously. Unless Canadians have some sort of odd temporal powers they haven’t revealed to the rest of us, of course. They are choosing to ‘prostest’ Bush at the expense of doing something useful. (If you go for that sort of stuff, that is.) Are you suggesting that protesting is a waste of time? > [@](#): > > Still, my question stands: What is to be accomplished by ‘protesting’ Bush? Even in a absolute best-case, what do goal do you think you will achieve? Obviously, nothing will be achieved (other than snarled traffic and perhaps some vandalism) Nobody is suggesting anything other then peaceful protest. If some morons smash some shit up, hold them responsible, not the ones obeying the law. > [@](#): > > , but I am wondering what the realistic ‘best-case’ is for the protesters. Best case is there’s a huge fucking turnout. That way they show the world, and more importantly the powers that be in Canada, that they’re against that asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/32 "2004-11-30T06:07:26Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > What is to be accomplished by ‘protesting’ Bush? At the least, it’ll make W (and his ilk, such as yourself) uncomfortable. At the most it may trigger a break into the psychotic paranoia that we all know George has within him. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/33 "2004-11-30T07:56:21Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Are you suggesting that protesting is a waste of time? Wow, it only took you how long to clue in on that? Hey, you guys are more than welcome to have your silly little protests. I guaran-fucking-tee that a bunch of dreadlocked white-boys abusing bongos and holding ‘BUSH IS TEH HITLER!’ signs isn’t going to make Dubya or me ‘uncomfortable’. Nor is it likely to affect world events in the slightest, other than in perhaps unintended ways. How many millions of man-hours of labor have been wasted by protesters in the past few years? And what have you accomplished? That’s what I thought. Don’t you think it is rather childish to waste a day to show the world you are against Bush? A) ‘The world’ isn’t going to be watching said ‘protest’. At best, a blurb in some papers or a few seconds on the evening news. Nobody cares. B) Again, if you types are so concerned with saving the world and whatnot, you should be actually _doing_ something. Go look for landmines. Feed the hungry. Wash my truck. Do _something_. Standing around with a bunch of like-minded people to express your dislike of a single person is a (hilarious) waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/34 "2004-11-30T09:01:57Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Are you suggesting that protesting is a waste of time? > > Nobody is suggesting anything other then peaceful protest. If some morons smash some shit up, hold them responsible, not the ones obeying the law. I’ll jump on this one. Is an organized protest with a point a waste of time? No. Is a bunch of people showing up, once, with “BUCK FUSH” signs a waste of time? Yes. I am willing to bet that this one falls into the second catagory. The sit ins staged in the 60’s for civil rights were effective. They got peoples attention and they had a _point_. People without a dog in the fight got interested in the issues. If you are going to protest do it right. Find a cause, get a group of people together and do it ALL THE TIME. Don’t like the gay marriage ban that recently passed? Get people together and do sit ins in the state capitols. Boycott companies that treat gay couples badly. Do it peacfully and often. Don’t like the war in Iraq? Stage a sit in around the capitol buildings. And do it all peacefully. Just my thoughts, Slee ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/35 "2004-11-30T09:59:47Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Wow, it only took you how long to clue in on that? Hey, you guys are more than welcome to have your silly little protests. I guaran-fucking-tee that a bunch of dreadlocked white-boys abusing bongos and holding ‘BUSH IS TEH HITLER!’ signs isn’t going to make Dubya or me ‘uncomfortable’. It has evidently made you uncomfortable enough to conflate ‘protester’ with ‘hippie’. Or whatever the ridiculously broad stereotype you’re using is. > [@Brutus](#): > > Nor is it likely to affect world events in the slightest, other than in perhaps unintended ways. How many millions of man-hours of labor have been wasted by protesters in the past few years? And what have you accomplished? That’s what I thought. Every voice matters, every voice can effect change no matter how slight, no protest is truly futile as long as someone notices it. Hell, it’s not even futile as long as those who protest feel like they expressed themselves. See, that’s a main point of living in a democratic nation. Sometimes the sole purpose of a protest is to let your voice be heard. And sometimes, it’s to tell the Canadian government that their constituents strongly oppose the agendas of W. > [@Brutus](#): > > Don’t you think it is rather childish to waste a day to show the world you are against Bush? I was unaware that so many children were taking an interest in social issues. If so I believe they should be applauded for participating in a socially responsible manner. 😉 > [@Brutus](#): > > A) ‘The world’ isn’t going to be watching said ‘protest’. At best, a blurb in some papers or a few seconds on the evening news. Nobody cares. . The world rarely watches that many events. That is certainly not a reason to cease acting on one’s convictions. Your axiomatic pessimism also does not hold water. The best that can happen is that Canadian elected officials see the protest and think “hey, maybe we should lend our voice in global opposition to the USA.”. At least, I’d assume that would be a ‘best case scenario’ for many protesters. (oh, and, just becuase you can’t find it in your heart to care, doesn’t mean that nobody does.) > [@Brutus](#): > > B) Again, if you types are so concerned with saving the world and whatnot, you should be actually _doing_ something. Go look for landmines. Feed the hungry. Wash my truck. Do _something_. Standing around with a bunch of like-minded people to express your dislike of a single person is a (hilarious) waste of time You types? Is that anything like you people? In any case, even if the protest only served to allow people to, well, vent, then for those people it would be a (very rational) use of time. To each their own, right? > [@sleestak](#): > > Is an organized protest with a point a waste of time? No. Is a bunch of people showing up, once, with “BUCK FUSH” signs a waste of time? Yes. Is it effective in terms of memetic combat? Probably not. But a waste of time assumes that we can legislate (for lack of a better term) what a proper use of time should be. As everybody lives their own life and dies their own death, perhaps it is more accurate to state that you would feel your time was wasted? > [@sleestak](#): > > The sit ins staged in the 60’s for civil rights were effective. They got peoples attention and they had a _point_. People without a dog in the fight got interested in the issues. I would argue that the difference between the 60’s and now was not so much a point, as organization. Then again, I wasn’t alive in the 60’s, so my only sources are historical. I can tell you though that opposition to an American agenda as typified by the bush regime is, indeed, a point. > [@sleestak](#): > > If you are going to protest do it right. Find a cause, get a group of people together and do it ALL THE TIME. Don’t like the gay marriage ban that recently passed? Get people together and do sit ins in the state capitols. Boycott companies that treat gay couples badly. Do it peacfully and often. Don’t like the war in Iraq? Stage a sit in around the capitol buildings. I think you’re confusing ‘doing it right’ with ‘this is what you need to do to fulfill certain goals.’ If one did not hold the exact same goals, they might very well be approaching the problem from a different angle. I will also note that a sit in on capitol hill might not work. Tactics change, the memesphere evolves, and perhaps the best combat strategies from forty years ago do not hold the same fitness today. But I may be wrong. > [@sleestak](#): > > And do it all peacefully. On this, however, we are in perfect agreement. ---
**Author:** ![MrFantsyPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MrFantsyPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFantsyPants)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/36 "2004-11-30T11:13:43Z")
If Bush did not meet massive protests every time he left the tightly controlled confines of his own little world, he’s probably decide he had a mandate from the rest of the world to meddle more than he does now. But more importantly, the protests serve to let our own government know that if they align themselves too closely with the Bush administration, then they will seriously lose popularity at home. **Brutus** , I think a better question would be “Why am I bothering responding to you, rather than working in a soup kitchen”. After all, this place is for fighting ignorance, not fighting with ignorants. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/37 "2004-11-30T12:21:29Z")
aw. Why don’t you lumberjack show some real balls and throw the bastard in jail on charges of crimes against humanity? Now that would be interesting… [http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article\_Type1&c=Article&cid=1100517502971&call\_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907626796&DPL=IvsNDS/7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes%20%20http://www.rabble.ca](http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1100517502971&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907626796&DPL=IvsNDS/7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes%20%20http://www.rabble.ca) Here is a bunch of other guys (“The People’s Global Action Block” heh heh) promising to …umm… “express themselves” …umm… “through art, through” …umm… “direct action” …umm… “, through a number of different formats.” Any number of formats? Oh my, oh my. Aren’t those scary! Girly-men holding their breath and stamping their feet are always so dreadfully scary! [http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20041127/PROTESTS27/National/Idx](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20041127/PROTESTS27/National/Idx) Another protest site: Oh. I absolutely adore the: “BUSH BEAT - Solidarity Drum Circle”. They’ve been doing that for, what, forty years – but hey why stop now just because it never worked? But perhaps next time you could improvise a bit? What about a Solidarity Drum Triangle? Solidarity Pan Flute Circle? etc. Also I’m quite disappointed there don’t seem to be any naked demonstrations! Those are my favourite. I propose a group of People’s-Global-Action-Block chicks shaving their abundant personal bush with the rebel cry: say no to bush! That would make the front pages in no time! [http://www.nowar-paix.ca/notobush/index.htm](http://www.nowar-paix.ca/notobush/index.htm) Of course you never have to dig very far before you encounter the formalistic condemnations of the illegitimate Zionistic entity and the deepest sympathy for the righteous Palestinians struggle. Always Israel. Yada yada yada. That is so unfair. Why the hell does the fucking Jews get to have all the fun?! Denmark is larger than the stupid Zionistic entity. We have a rightwing government. We have troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo. We’re evil war mongers too. Guys! I think we deserve some recognition here. [http://sphr.org/Announcements.php](http://sphr.org/Announcements.php) [pssst. Bonus link. Canadian minority complexes…](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15638-2004Nov26.html?sub=AR) ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/38 "2004-11-30T12:47:36Z")
Oh! Hot news: The Canucks grow balls. [http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/133762/index.php](http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/133762/index.php) Also in the news: rivers flow upstream, pigs fly, Disney-Paris shows profit, hell freezes over and Danish slaves quits their self-imposed welfare fetters. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/39 "2004-11-30T12:48:50Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Best case is there’s a huge fucking turnout. That way they show the world, and more importantly the powers that be in Canada, that they’re against that asshole. This is just preaching to the choir. A turnout of 500,000 protesters wouldn’t change one single opinion. Bush-haters will still hate. Bush-lovers will still love. It is a waste of time. Spend the equivalent time doing something positive. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/40 "2004-11-30T13:05:03Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Don’t you think it is rather childish to waste a day to show the world you are against Bush? A) ‘The world’ isn’t going to be watching said ‘protest’. At best, a blurb in some papers or a few seconds on the evening news. Nobody cares. Hogwash. The world will be watching, because people in other countries actually pay attention to events happening around the world, not just the little patch of dirt they call home. Even _you_ care enough to march into any anti-republican thread to belittle people who have an opposing point of view. Many of your fellow Americans, even the minority who watch nothing but Fox, will see your duly-elected president greeted by protesters as he visits yet _another_ country. And they may even hear about some of the issues people are protesting against-- like criminally high protectionist tariffs imposed by the so-called pro-business Republican party. Peaceful protest is a useless act? Tell that to Gandhi, or people in Ukraine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180.md?page=3)