# Canuckistani Dopers: Bush's visit tomorrow **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180 "2004-11-29T18:07:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/41 "2004-11-30T13:53:12Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > If you are going to protest do it right. Find a cause, get a group of people together and do it ALL THE TIME. Slee, Matt is an activist. He has been organizing and participating in protests for a long time. He has even taken his activisim as far as running for Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/42 "2004-11-30T13:59:31Z")
Canada has a minority government, meaning that it is very easy for the government to fall if it does not heed the people. Protesting send a strong signal to the government as to what the people want. If the protests against Bush are no more than two people and dog, that will send a different message than if the protests are well attended. If the protests are well attended, then the government will carefully consider its actions with respect to Bush. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/43 "2004-11-30T14:00:38Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Oh. I absolutely adore the: “BUSH BEAT - Solidarity Drum Circle”. They’ve been doing that for, what, forty years – but hey why stop now just because it never worked? But perhaps next time you could improvise a bit? What about a Solidarity Drum Triangle? Solidarity Pan Flute Circle? etc. I do have to admit that a “Solidarity In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida Drum Solo” would be pretty freakin’ cool. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/44 "2004-11-30T14:19:01Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > If the protests are well attended, then the government will carefully consider its actions with respect to Bush. Which actions would those be though? ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/45 "2004-11-30T14:21:34Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > That reminds me…am I the only Haligonian on the boards? There used to be a few of us here. But I haven’t heard from some of them in a while. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/46 "2004-11-30T14:46:35Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Wow, it only took you how long to clue in on that? Umm, yeah, protesting has never been effective. :rolleyes: Pick a history book sometime. > [@](#): > > Hey, you guys are more than welcome to have your silly little protests. I guaran-fucking-tee that a bunch of dreadlocked white-boys abusing bongos and holding ‘BUSH IS TEH HITLER!’ signs isn’t going to make Dubya or me ‘uncomfortable’. You obviously didn’t see the NY march on the republican convention. It was about varied as it gets. Face facts, a lot of _different_ don’t like this guy. If you support him you support him, but don’t just blindly follow him. Hell I had a million beefs with Clinton, and called him out constantly. I think what makes you such an asshole is that you can’t (or won’t) even try to look at things from a different perspective. > [@](#): > > Nor is it likely to affect world events in the slightest, other than in perhaps unintended ways. How many millions of man-hours of labor have been wasted by protesters in the past few years? And what have you accomplished? That’s what I thought. Well luckily we don’t need you to _get it_, because be we do. The bigger the protest the better. The intended results are simple. Serve notice to the Canadian government not to work too closely with Bush, and encourage others around the world to speak up to their governments. > [@](#): > > Don’t you think it is rather childish to waste a day to show the world you are against Bush? No, not at all. Btw a few hours does not a day make. > [@](#): > > A) ‘The world’ isn’t going to be watching said ‘protest’. At best, a blurb in some papers or a few seconds on the evening news. When was the last time you left this country? > [@](#): > > Nobody cares Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean nobody does. > [@](#): > > B) Again, if you types are so concerned with saving the world and whatnot, you should be actually _doing_ something. Go look for landmines. Feed the hungry. Wash my truck. Do _something_. Standing around with a bunch of like-minded people to express your dislike of a single person is a (hilarious) waste of time. You’re probably one of those people that says someone getting raped should lie back and enjoy it. > [@sleestak](#): > > Is an organized protest with a point a waste of time? No. Is a bunch of people showing up, once, with “BUCK FUSH” signs a waste of time? Yes. > > I am willing to bet that this one falls into the second catagory. Probably, but as long as it’s a shitload of people with “BUCK FUSH” signs it will make an impression. You guys should really take a lot at the people showing up, it’s hardly hippies and drumheads. > [@](#): > > The sit ins staged in the 60’s for civil rights were effective. They got peoples attention and they had a _point_. People without a dog in the fight got interested in the issues. > > If you are going to protest do it right. Find a cause, get a group of people together and do it ALL THE TIME. Don’t like the gay marriage ban that recently passed? Get people together and do sit ins in the state capitols. Boycott companies that treat gay couples badly. Do it peacfully and often. Don’t like the war in Iraq? Stage a sit in around the capitol buildings. I agree. > [@BwanaBob](#): > > A turnout of 500,000 protesters wouldn’t change one single opinion. > Bush-haters will still hate. > Bush-lovers will still love. > > It is a waste of time. > Spend the equivalent time doing something positive. I’m sure it will turn some heads in the Canadian government, and if it did, the protest was a success. Man you guys are a bunch of gutless chickshits, I wonder if you roll over as easy IRL. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/47 "2004-11-30T16:35:53Z")
_“The first demonstration – of Palestinians and sympathisers of the Palestinian cause opposed to Washington’s support of Israel – attracted less than 40 demonstrators.”_ 39 to be precise and 42 journalists. heh. The journalists outnumbered the protesters. I bet Bush is shivering in his knickers now! Perhaps a bit of disciplined camera control can make the turnout seem massive. I’m just upset the pesky Jews upstaged all the attention once again. Please, can we have some condemnation directed this way as well? A second later demonstration wasn’t quite so successful. Nobody showed. Apparently not even the organizers. …um [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041130/wl\_canada\_afp/canada\_us\_bush](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041130/wl_canada_afp/canada_us_bush) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/48 "2004-11-30T16:54:33Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > 39 to be precise and 42 journalists. heh. The journalists outnumbered the protesters. I bet Bush is shivering in his knickers now! Perhaps a bit of disciplined camera control can make the turnout seem massive. No problem, just call the guy who filmed the Saddam statue getting pulled down. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/49 "2004-11-30T18:04:03Z")
Just a note, because I really don’t Pit very well. 🙂 **BwanaBob** , **Brutus** , it doesn’t matter to me if only a few people turn out or that nobody will care what I say or do. What matters, personally, is that I’m out there making my statement, making my voice heard–that I stand for something, regardless of who cares or not. It’s a personal decision I’ve made and I want to stand by it. I don’t think protesting is useless, either. Yes, we could all be feeding the hungry and sheltering the poor–both wonderful and noble things to do, all in seriousness–but that doesn’t exclude anyone from attending a protest or helping out with the Torontonians heading for Ottawa–at 7 in the morning!–to make their views known. I think that’s all I have to say. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/50 "2004-11-30T18:15:52Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Which actions would those be though? Whether or not to push forward with WTO approved sanctions due to the Byrd bill and the softwood lumber dispute. Whether or not to assist in Iraq by training Iraquis at sites outside Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/51 "2004-11-30T18:35:01Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Whether or not to push forward with WTO approved sanctions due to the Byrd bill and the softwood lumber dispute. > > Whether or not to assist in Iraq by training Iraquis at sites outside Iraq. But pushing forward with both the WTO and softwood lumber issues were courses of action the government was already taking. And they’re issues that have the support of a large number of Canadians already. Mind you that assumes they’re aware of Bryd in the first place. The same can be said about the beef issue. There’s no need to try and influence the government to follow those paths since they were already on them before the Bush visit trotted up and screwed up my morning commute. As for training Iraqis, is that even an issue for people? I was vaguely aware of it and I have no issue with Canadian involvement with training a nascent police force for Iraq. At least no more issue with that than I have with our training Haitian “police”. The only issue I can see protestors trying to influence government policy on would be MDI. Unfortunately, while I think it’s a waste of time and money in it current incarnation, the US _will_ run with it, they _will_ lock us out of continental defense and they _will_ ignore any territorial claims of sovereignty over the artic _unless_ we sit at the table. It’s an absolute bitch of an arrangement to find ourselves in. ---
**Author:** ![Phelan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Phelan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phelan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/52 "2004-11-30T19:14:06Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > I’ll be in Ottawa. I’m making the placards this evening. Slogans so far: > > [ul] > [li]BUCK FUSH[/li][li]LIZ SEZ: Blue states! We’ll take you back if you ask nicely[/li][li]Nous protégerons nos foyers et nos droits[/li][li]LICK BUSH (this one is for my fag hag)[/li][li](picture of W) HOSER/NIAISEUX[/li][li]Yet another Canuck pinko faggot against Bush[/li][li]Hey W: We have pot, gay marriage, and French people! Run for your life!![/li][/ul] I saw the Buck Fush sign on CBC Newsworld. I wonder if that was you? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/53 "2004-11-30T20:36:38Z")
I know I’m flailing pointlessly against windmills, and I’ve done it a thousand times before. But I just wanted to say that I look upon these Hitler/Nazi analogies with about the same amount of disgust as I would do a KKK march, White Power racist propaganda or bible thumbing anti-Darwinists. You are mocking thirty million victims of Nazi barbarism, diluting the whole concept to an irrelevant slur without basis in real life history (and without sting), making it harder to counter any real Nazi resurgence and thus making any comeback so much easier. It disgusts me. Anyone carrying such a message or walking in a demonstration with someone who does has lost all claims to respect and pretty much invalidated whatever else message there might have been. [http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30\_1000-1130\_043.JPG](http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30_1000-1130_043.JPG) [http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30\_1000-1130\_030.JPG](http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30_1000-1130_030.JPG) [http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30\_1000-1130\_006.JPG](http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30_1000-1130_006.JPG) [http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30\_1000-1130\_013.JPG](http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30_1000-1130_013.JPG) This last one cleverly include a David Star in the US/Nazi imagery. “Israel Conspiracy Anglo American Terrorism” And you wonder why you are ridiculed? Perhaps because you are fucking idiots? Although the poster below seem to think some kind of strange cabal of Israel and the UK have masterminded the gullible US into war? The mind boggles. These are just plain ridiculous: Hate to be the one to break it to you guys, but the election is over. [http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1130-1230/2004-11-30\_1130-1230\_090.JPG](http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1130-1230/2004-11-30_1130-1230_090.JPG) “The only terrorist I know is named Bu$h”. Wow. I guess you missed all the hoopla with Bin Laden & Mohammed Atta and his merry band of freedom fighters. [http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30\_1000-1130\_039.JPG](http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1000-1130/2004-11-30_1000-1130_039.JPG) This one (\) is great – short and to the point: Bravo! [http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1130-1230/2004-11-30\_1130-1230\_078.JPG](http://www.amalgamatedlampblack.com/images/protest/1130-1230/2004-11-30_1130-1230_078.JPG) ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/54 "2004-11-30T20:43:56Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Slee, Matt is an activist. He has been organizing and participating in protests for a long time. He has even taken his activisim as far as running for Parliament. I did not know that. Right on for Matt. At the same time a “BUCK FUSH” shirt, while funny, probably isn’t the best way to convince someone who likes Bush to rethink their position. I certainly think that it isn’t going to change the minds of anyone in the Canadian government. I guess it depends on what, exactly, you expect the protest to accomplish. If the protest is just to show that you don’t like Bush then it’ll work. If, on the other hand, there are specific policies you want changed I don’t see this kind of protest accomplishing much at all. Some other things: > [@FinnAgain](#): > > I can tell you though that opposition to an American agenda as typified by the bush regime is, indeed, a point. Actually, it’s not a point. It’s a generalzation. “Bush is evil” is a generalzation. “Bush is wrong about {insert issue here}” is a point. See the difference? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Hell, it’s not even futile as long as those who protest feel like they expressed themselves. I totally disagree with this. Somehow “expressing yourself” has become an end in itself even if it accomplishes absolutely nothing at all. I just don’t get it. and last > [@FinnAgain](#): > > You guys should really take a lot at the people showing up, it’s hardly hippies and drumheads. I never said that they were a bunch of hippies and drumheads. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/55 "2004-11-30T20:50:25Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > As for training Iraqis, is that even an issue for people? I was vaguely aware of it and I have no issue with Canadian involvement with training a nascent police force for Iraq. At least no more issue with that than I have with our training Haitian “police”. > > The only issue I can see protestors trying to influence government policy on would be MDI. Unfortunately, while I think it’s a waste of time and money in it current incarnation, the US _will_ run with it, they _will_ lock us out of continental defense and they _will_ ignore any territorial claims of sovereignty over the artic _unless_ we sit at the table. It’s an absolute bitch of an arrangement to find ourselves in. On the CBC radio this morning, it was stated that for this meeting training Iraqis is on the table, but MDI is not. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/56 "2004-11-30T20:55:57Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Actually, it’s not a point. It’s a generalzation. “Bush is evil” is a generalzation. “Bush is wrong about {insert issue here}” is a point. See the difference? No, “Bush is evil” is most certainly a point. See, the point of that protest would be that, well, Bush is evil. You are talking about a specific issue, most likely one of policy. That is not the same thing as a point. > [@sleestak](#): > > I totally disagree with this. Somehow “expressing yourself” has become an end in itself even if it accomplishes absolutely nothing at all. I just don’t get it. Probably because you hold different personal values and goals, and that’s wonderful, we live in a free society. But surely somewhere in your mind you can find room for someone for whom personal expression would form a vital part of living in a representative democracy? Indeed, isn’t that a large part of the word ‘representative?’ Yes, for some, having a _voice_ is an end in and of itself, do you really want to discourage them? > [@sleestak](#): > > I never said that they were a bunch of hippies and drumheads. You have quoted me in error, I never said that. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/57 "2004-11-30T20:58:29Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > n the CBC radio this morning, it was stated that for this meeting training Iraqis is on the table, but MDI is not. Well that’s excellent. We can train them _and_ promote international co-operation by putting them in the same dorm as the African Union peackeepers. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/58 "2004-11-30T20:59:29Z")
> [@Phelan](#): > > I saw the Buck Fush sign on CBC Newsworld. I wonder if that was you? Slee, the Buck Fush sign will make the national news, as Phelan has already noted. That will encourage more people to think about the meeting and what is being discussed at it. And that will result in some people expressing their opinions to the politicians, who in turn will participate in making the policy decisions that will affect our relationship with the USA and the rest of the world. One person writing a letter or making a call to a Member of Parliament may make a diference, but a lot of people doing the same has a much better chance. Wide spread media attention will lead to more such letters and calls than would otherwise be made. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/59 "2004-11-30T21:05:03Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > You obviously didn’t see the NY march on the republican convention. [You mean this one?](http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4092905093) (Imagestation membership required) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180/60 "2004-11-30T21:17:56Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > One person writing a letter or making a call to a Member of Parliament may make a diference, but a lot of people doing the same has a much better chance. Wide spread media attention will lead to more such letters and calls than would otherwise be made. What am I missing here **Muffin**? There are no government policies that currently support the Bush administration outside of MDI and maybe the slow down on the decriminalization of pot. What policy exactly are the protestors aiming to influence in your view? From here, and looking at **matt** ’s slogan list, well it is pretty much policy neutral and personality specific. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canuckistani-dopers-bushs-visit-tomorrow/277180.md?page=4)